Flowing With Spirit
Welcome to our cosmic adventure! We're just a bunch of pals diving headfirst into life's mysteries and the wild realm of spirituality, all from our inquisitive perspective. Think of us as your friendly cosmic explorers. We're keeping it as real as your morning coffee, yet spicing it up with some mind-expanding insights. Buckle up as we embark on a journey through the cosmic realms, all through our candid and open conversations. Grab a seat; it's gonna be one enlightening ride!"
Flowing With Spirit
The Transformative Quest for Balance in Love, Duty and Relationships
As we tread the intricate dance between self-sacrifice and self-discovery, the ever-inspiring Anna joins us to unravel the knots of life's demanding roles. From the confines of a stagnant relationship to the noble task of caregiving for an adult daughter with disabilities, our conversation peels back layers of obligation, guilt, and the transformative power of setting boundaries in pursuit of personal fulfillment. Anna's story is a mirror for many, reflecting the universal struggle of balancing familial duty with the whispers of one's own heart.
This episode is a trove of rich narratives, each chapter a stepping stone on the path to empowerment and inner peace. We tackle the complexities of one-sided relationships, the resilience found in the face of personal upheaval, and the courage required to redefine ourselves outside the roles we've played. It's a journey that questions long-held beliefs, dares us to prioritize self-care, and invites us to reconsider what we've been taught about unconditional love and the fabric of our closest relationships.
Join us as we navigate the crossroads of caregiving and personal growth, drawing inspiration from spiritual wisdom and the hard-earned lessons of life. Whether you're contemplating a shift in direction or simply seeking affirmation in your current path, our discourse offers a beacon of hope—a lighthouse for those ready to steer their ship through the fog of life's uncertainties towards the shores of self-actualization and inner harmony. With Anna's heartfelt experiences and our candid exploration, this episode is an ode to anyone standing at the precipice of change.
To all listeners, we welcome questions and or input, feel free to send us any inquiry about topics of your interest.
I was talking about with Anna, like I've been doing, anna for a long time now, yes, and something that we kind of always talk about is our path, our path in life, okay, and it seems like she's constantly getting stuck in a certain very specific spot, you know, and not knowing how to move, throw it or around it, or whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 1:So I thought like, oh, that would be. I actually like that like for my own self right now, where I feel like you know, where I've always felt like there was a sense of some type of path. Right now I feel like I don't see a path in my way, like I almost just see, like there's nothing, like it's like I don't even know if I'm just need to make my own path or what, but, like before, I always felt like there was something always kind of telling me you need to go in this direction. But for right now I don't see it, but maybe that's my own blindness or I'm not. Like it's like someone in the wilderness and they just don't know how to survive, right, they don't know how to make their way through. So where before I always kind of felt like there was always something kind of guiding me to be like it was easy.
Speaker 2:But do you feel comfortable in this place? I do, and I don't. I do in the sense I maybe. That's all I'm like. I got to where I went.
Speaker 1:Maybe I should concentrate on creating a bundle of the woods. You know what I mean, but I think that that feeling of not doing something is very uncomfortable, okay, and. But you know we can talk about that as we go along. And then something where Anna that she's been talking about like you know where we from resonating with is that I mean, it's probably better that you tell your own story, you know, but she's always like stuck at this one specific place. And just from the way you know, when I see you working with other people, you talk about contracts and things of that nature I feel like that might be a really good modality in helping her. And I also think, because you know she comes from like an Italian American background and everything else. So I also think like talking to someone like Leo, you guys would have a lot of resonance and like perhaps they're growing up in the same way of I don't know, I just feel like that it would be just good conversation.
Speaker 2:It's good, so go ahead. I'm one too, telling your own words. You know what she's been struggling with. What is your perception of that? You know?
Speaker 3:I've been stuck as a magnet for a while now. I need to move forward in my relationship. My husband is no longer interested and I don't know what to do. I don't know what the secret is anymore. That gives me a lot of freedom to mom and dad, but I see that even your family is ficar behind social security law. You still have the power to agree or not. 계 and my children are kind of stuck in limbo because they say they're two parents cloundering and not communicating and stuff, so they don't know where they belong, even though they're all adults. I have a. I want to go and start another chapter of my life. I don't know how to start, where to start, and I have to figure out what to do with my 27 year old daughter who has a disability. Her care is pretty much on my shoulders. I spent most of my life caring for people and I think I really forgot about how to take care of myself and what I need.
Speaker 2:So that's what I'm interested in, yeah well, I think that's the main problem is that often time, when we are in situations like that, especially when taking care of, when we're in charge of something that is never ending, it becomes. We get lost in it and then we get to places where we realize we have time to see that maybe I don't like this, I don't like it anymore, because things start falling apart.
Speaker 2:You don't always notice that things start falling apart the moment you dedicate yourself completely to someone else's ideal, someone else's goals, someone else's wants, desires, needs, anything, and a lot of time can go by before the person that is doing all that realizes that perhaps I've lost a lot more in the process. And you only start looking around when things the actual things that you think you've built around yourself, like family relationships, the household, the marriage and your job and anything else yourself, and then you look around and things start scrambling on that situation. Yes, it is a bit of a I don't. If you're questioning it, you're not necessarily stuck. It gives the feeling of being stuck because you know that in order to move forward, you have to make decisions that perhaps you're not really willing to make just yet, that they're scary, you know they're not. They're not easy decisions to make. You know, and they're also still the responsibility in navigating like a child, an adult child with disability is a tricky thing, especially if all along you've been responsible for that.
Speaker 2:How old are you? What's your age? Sixty, Sixty-three, yeah? And let's start with throwing some percentages. I want you to kind of think about this and throw me, throw some numbers you know and think about of the amount of time that you've dedicated to cultivate your likes and your wants and your needs. You know, and I want you to give me a percentage for the things that you like, for the things that you want, for the things for your needs, emotional needs, not physical needs, that I'm talking about. How much, how much time do you dedicate, percentage-wise, on a daily basis, weekly or monthly?
Speaker 3:I started with self-care and that's kind of going to policy policy. I also see a massage therapist and a chiropractor, so that's what I've been doing for my self-emotional and physical. But before then, and even it's hard for me to remember what my likes were, because I've been told what I'm going to do and I do it. I, you know the obedient child, the obedient wife taking care of my children, so I kind of pushed those things aside for myself and was concentrating on them. That's what makes it so hard now if they see me doing something, as it's kind of here there's a lot of pushback why, why, why, who's? That.
Speaker 3:I have another adult daughter, 32, and my eight-year-old grandson, her son, my eight-year-old grandson. So they're not used to me, number one. I don't know what it might be. So that was. It's really hard for them to see me branching out and doing stuff without taking my entourage.
Speaker 2:Okay. So that's great, though, that you took that step, you know, into doing something like this, and to all the stuff that you're doing, thanks to Prado. Yes.
Speaker 2:But you know, when people start doing self-care, the first thing they do, they do things, you know like they go. They start eating better, they exercise, they do yoga or they take meditations, and those are great, but it's only going to get you so far, because the things that you've been doing up until this time, since you were, you know, a child, is neglecting your needs, not your physical needs, your emotional needs. So you're once in your likes and if I ask you what do you want to do, you're going to say I don't even know, right, so that means that you've been disregarding yourself as a human being for the longest time. It's what, when people you know structure their lives in this way I'm not saying not in the sense that it's your fault, it's just how it happens and it's doctorated, you know. So it's not anything that is difficult to see that it shouldn't be that way For most people we blindly say, oh yeah, that's right, that's what I'm supposed to do, but in the process then you lose a lot of parts of yourself, you know.
Speaker 2:So, because you're 68, we're going to use your favorite line, leo. You know the doctor Phil that maybe you want to remember. You tell me about it that there is an episode with Dr Phil. Can you show me that side?
Speaker 2:No, that where he put a line of your life, of like an age on the floor right and had a person stand at 63 and then realize that you'll have up pretty much 20 years of you can't even say it's going to be quality time, because by the time you get to even 50, you don't know, you can't count on your health being status quo until the time you die. You can hope for that and I hope for everybody to be very healthy, but it's more likely we're going to end up with some kind of illness and disease and God knows what that is going to take. It's going to diminish our quality of life in that way. So how much time do you really have to enjoy life? How much time do you think you have?
Speaker 3:Well, give me a number If I look at my father's side of the family. I shouldn't be here. If I look at my mother's side of the family, I have to tell about my 80s.
Speaker 2:Okay, so you have until your 80s. Do you think you're going to be able to be physically fit to be independent and not depend on anybody, health-wise, with just you know? Do you think you're going to have all that?
Speaker 3:I would like to but caring for, you know, my parents, my aunt. It's hard to see it like that.
Speaker 2:Right, Because you see that side, that your body wants it to size. It's going to let you, let go. It's going to let go and everything becomes more difficult, Like if you ended up in the hospital for a day or two. It throws you back, like you know every day three days.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's it's it's a difficult path, and not saying this because that's what's down the road for you. I'm saying this because I want you to think, that I want you to think about where you're at right now, how much time you have. Let's say you have 10 years, 10 really good years. With that you can maintain the health that you have right now the brains because we can lose the brains to dementia, alzheimer's, we can lose our you know capacity to Parkinson's and all that kind of thing. I mean, we're getting into these ages. You know that's the reality of it. Diabetes, high blood pressure, any of those can undermine you know. So, maybe 10 years, right. How do you want to spend those 10 years and how fast do you want to get into a place that you're really good, that you're happy and you're actually dedicating time to yourself? How long is it going to take you to say fuck you all and I'm moving on and I'm just doing whatever I need to do for myself because I dedicated all this time to everybody?
Speaker 3:I don't know if I can actually do that, because I'm not that kind of person, so for me it feels like I'm going to turn my back on it.
Speaker 3:I'm trying to figure out ways to spend time with my children and do things that have some quality time as their adults, because we had fun when they were little as much as possible with six children and still taking care of my mom, so I'm going to enjoy that. I'd like to be able to get to know them, you know out of their older and do things, and I would like to travel. I haven't really done anything in that aspect because I still need to get my passport and things like that. I would like to go to Italy and look at my ancestors and my mom was with Wanging. I wouldn't mind going and checking out them Then do it.
Speaker 5:Doing something like that doesn't mean you have to let everything go. That's around you too. It's more of a balance. You know you take some time to take care of your mom and family, to visit, you know, to be with them and whatever. Then you have your own personal time. You know your whole life can't or shouldn't be dedicated for everyone else. But you, you know you are part of the equation too, just like everyone else. So you know I wouldn't feel guilty or bad that you're turning it back. I wouldn't think that way.
Speaker 3:I just have to find someone to do with my daughter. I'm a 27-year-old especially this daughter. That's my big thing. I really don't want to take her with me because it wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have the. I guess I'm looking for a little bit of freedom. Freedom, less responsibility.
Speaker 2:But who said that your responsible for this child? You know, for this adult child, when there is all these other children and there is also the father. Why is it that you can't just? You know, if I were you, what I would do. We'll get a ticket, we'll get my passport, we'll get a ticket, pack my bag, leave, don't tell anybody and just leave a note and say goodbye, I'll see you in about a week and they're going to manage because they're going to know that you're not there and they're going to have to do it. They may try and call you. They may try, and you know be they're going to complain about it when you come back and they're going to be all upset with you. But guess what? Then you book another ticket. You go somewhere else, even if it is to stay a hotel down the street, you know.
Speaker 1:The question is is, when you do that, can you enjoy yourself or what you be thinking about? That's going on back home, and that's just from knowing you. And one of the one of the things I find is anything that she does like how you said tonight, but you got pushed back. Actually, I'll be honest with you, I'm actually surprised you came. I didn't think she was going to come, and the reason is is because anything that she does that might be slightly out of the realm of you just play the role of you, care of everybody.
Speaker 1:It seems I don't want to talk about your family, just just from what I you know, what I hear, and it seems like you get like this huge amount of like push on you as if like what's wrong with you. But then again, I mean, I'm just again, if I'm revealing too much, just tell me. But no one knows your name Is that her husband travels a lot and he's, he just basically just does whatever he wants. He just does whatever he wants. And then he comes home and you're like how do you say I said the mate, you know what I mean. And then when you always say like that, when he was coming home last time I saw you. It literally. I saw you as if, like you got beat up in a fight.
Speaker 1:I think I wasn't even home yet, right, and then you're always talking about this armoring, and then you're talking about how, like, you can't lose weight, and then even your water's called body over that. But there's a point where I feel like you just some points, just like okay, like I got to drop it and just go. But I understand your hesitation, right, because it's like okay, how do I do that? Because that's all I know. Like I took care of my grandmother, I mean my mother. I was, you were taking care of people, even before that with your dad. You know all that stuff and it's just a constant, constantly taking care of somebody. I guess what I'm wondering is is can she? How do we help you get to a place where you're comfortable not taking care of anybody but yourself?
Speaker 2:I understand, I, I understand all that. It's not that I'm I'm coming across that I'm going to the tough route, because I need to see what you're willing to do and what you're not willing to do. If you want to, if you want change, I need to push you in the corner and see where you're going, because it's all about willingness. You know, are you, do you have the willingness to put yourself first? And there is all kinds of ways to put yourself first. You know, or degree of it, considering, taking into consideration everybody's situations, but when I push you into that corner, you push back too. It's like there is no. You know you're not willing to take risk and chances to put yourself first.
Speaker 2:And if and if you're not willing to take a risk to put yourself first, you're not going to see the changes because you're not going to do, because you're going to continue telling yourself the story that you have to be this person, and so the children will also keep repeating the story that that's the person that you have to be, because you're holding on to it. So, in order to see changes, you have to let go of you know, foremost, that the vision of you, the version of you that you think you are supposed to be, it isn't up to them to decide. If they were understanding of this, okay, and again, I'm not saying this I don't know them and I don't want to. I'm not saying coming across as strong and only because, in the sense that I'm putting them down in any way, there is, unfortunately, if you're the enabler, so being the enabler, then the children are used to getting everything that they need and want. They don't have any perception of boundaries and when they see you putting boundaries, they threatens their lives and their version of life in what they believe and know. Because you're changing. And if you're changing, their world is going to change too, not in the sense of, but that means also their identity so you can see how they will. You know, some of them may have a difficult time with that. If they hadn't been enabled into that situation, they would be the type of children who says Mom, you go, go away, you need to get out, you will take care of things, don't worry about anything, just go Right To get them to that place.
Speaker 2:You have to start If you don't want to start like cold turkey, rip the bandage off and say you know, screw it, I'm going, I'm done, that's it. I'm not saying abandon the family, but in a sense I'm going to start doing things differently and I'm just going to go cold turkey. You can do it slowly and there are some things that you have to do, but you have to understand the concept of putting yourself first and are you willing to do that? You're taking some steps to put yourself first, but this means also what you have to change is when you're putting yourself first. It also comes down to how people react to what they say around you and how you react to those spoken words and the language and the communication and conversation that you're having.
Speaker 2:It's about saying choosing you over your husband, choosing you over the other children that they perfectly find there's nothing wrong with them. It means that you can delegate the time that you don't have to do at all. It means, like having a conversation with the adult children live with you and say, for now on, this is how it's going to be. I'm going to do this for a month and then, after this month, we're going to review and see if we can do things differently and then go from there. But I don't feel that you have at that point where you want to take the will to make the changes, which is okay. It's not a bad thing, it's a process.
Speaker 5:I think it's all new to you, so you're struggling with it all. If you look at the bigger picture, everyone around in your life, overall adults, pretty much and if you really look at it too in this way like well, where's this? Say that I am responsible for every adult to have to be happy and to be taken care of, because responsibility now is on them to move on with their lives or do what they need to do Not so much move on with their lives, but to take the responsibility and step up to the play to do what they need to do, because you, I, you know myself I put that in the same category where we're getting to a point in our life where there's only so much you can do for everybody. Now it's like I need to take care of myself because I'm getting up there in age. I have family to help me and protect me and love me, but I can't do everything for everybody to a point where I'm enabling I was going to talk about that, she took the words out of my mouth but at this point you're enabling, for example, your husband to carry on the way he does and it's been happening for so long like this is how he lives.
Speaker 5:This is what he expects from you, and you know I'm going to take any other compromise or anything else like that. This is the way it is, and it's okay for you to say I'm sorry, honey, I'm. You know, I'm sorry, I want to vacation, I want to go someplace, but I want to go by myself and and explore things and just do the things I always wanted to do. And what is he going to say? Oh well, what about me? Well, you know who's going to cook me dinner, who's going to do this? And I'm sorry, you know, I've taken care of you, but you need to step up to the plate, you know it's.
Speaker 2:What would he say if you were to not serve it, if that's the word that was used before that, when he comes home and you were to not act the way you usually act? Well, how does he react to that? Because I'm pretty sure you've probably tried in the past.
Speaker 3:And that's. That's what we are. We're just a limbo, we. We don't speak to each other. If he does need to talk to me, he will text me or he will scream at me. It's a lot of verbal roughness, I don't know how to say it, he pretty much has his own life and he's very happy he's that the other, the 32 year old at home, and him have become best buddies. He's like he has taken her on as his substitute of you.
Speaker 3:Yes, exactly, and she's perfectly fine with that to a degree, and if I, if she says something to me, then I I will gently guide her because I don't want her to get into the same pattern I had, because he's very, he's very manipulative and he knows how to get the things that he wants. Sounds like he's a narcissistic.
Speaker 2:Yes, I wasn't, yep, and I just learned about that you know, four or five years ago, I had no idea that was something. Well, he would definitely put everybody against you and he has the power and ability to do so.
Speaker 1:Yes, and in a way actually that's already happened.
Speaker 5:Yes, and you know very. They're master manipulators. Oh my God, everything that comes out of his mouth is for purposes. He would never just say something just for the sake of saying it. There's a goal in mind and slowly, by Sharl, he's manipulating you to get whatever he needs or wants.
Speaker 3:And it took. It took when my husband and I got married, his mother, his mother, said to me you can't give him back. You have to promise me, you can't give him back. And I made the promise and for me a promise is a promise. I don't break it.
Speaker 5:But I wonder why she said it.
Speaker 3:I know I didn't catch on and I guess I was too naive. When she passed in 2012, I whispered to her promise is done. I'm sorry but you're going to take it with you because I'm done and that was 2012. Good for you. Fast forward to 2019. My mom passes away. We all live in the same house. We built our house and put the addition on for my mom because she needed special equipment and everything.
Speaker 3:I didn't want to go and upset the apple cart when I have everything established for my mom and I have the kids and they're doing their thing going to school and going to college, different beaches and stuff and then, okay, I'll just survive Just a few more years. And here we are to 2023. And I'm still just surviving. I'm trying to. My husband is not home as much anymore. He floats in a couple times a year. He stays a few days and then he goes. He has his own life. And now my children are finding out about my husband's extra life and they're upset Both. Why did I let it go on? They have to. I mean, there's 10 year difference in my children. When I found out originally they were only like five. The youngest ones were five and the oldest ones were five. We don't know about the original of him having other things on the side.
Speaker 2:Why did you stay? I mean, that's been going on for such a long time. Why did you stay?
Speaker 3:We moved into the house we lived in Doyleston in 1999. Like I said, I was all established. We had all the special coming from my mom and everything. Everybody you know had their lives established and I just fit in, you know. And I was happy because they were happy. Your mom was only as happy as her least unhappy child, you know. I mean something like that, the way this goes. And I was happy because they were happy. And they were happy when my husband was there.
Speaker 3:When he wasn't there and then I was able to, as I was told by psychologists that I need to bring in some male role models, I wasn't supposed to do that. I went off the street. Luckily my husband has lots of brothers, so come for dinner. You know they're all going to come eat. So they had dad and then they had their friends, dads who were very active in their daughter's lives. My daughter tells us, says to me I wasn't dad active in our life because he was working. I only knew a working father. That's all I had. I finally didn't have time for me because he worked and he worked hard in his own business. So I didn't really know or have that connection.
Speaker 3:My father wanted me to be a boy. I was a girl. I found out when my mom passed away. I found out that my birthday was not the birth date that I was told it was. My birthday was six months before. So I wasn't born in June, I was born in January. And that was the same face and that was the Italian, my Italian grandmother. My father's mother was very strong, she was the gloob. She died when she was 66. I was six years old when she passed away. Broke my heart. So, yeah, and I was raised to be the one who was going to. You're going to take care of your mother because my mom had MS. So when I was 15, my mom got sick. I mean, I started doing all the house things when I was eight and then 15, she got very sick and then I picked up all the slack from there. My father was an alcoholic. It got worse because my mom was bad. My uncle moved in. So there was a lot of. You know when I'm jumping the balls and even my prayer every night.
Speaker 3:I would say to the dear Lord please help me grow up fast so I can help my family. They need me.
Speaker 2:That's how I did it, you know.
Speaker 1:I know I told you this before and I'm probably pretty sure I said it here too, because I love this story. But there is a story of this boy who goes to see the Sufi saint. Did I tell you this story?
Speaker 2:You did, I don't remember.
Speaker 1:So he goes to see the Sufi saint. He goes on this long like pilgrimage to go find this guy and he finally makes it to this man's house and he knocks on the door and then someone answers the door and she says can I help you? He's like I'm here to see saint, I mean, you know master or so, and so he's like he's not here, it just goes to the door in his face. So then he knocks again and she answers the door. He goes please, I came a long way. I just, I really, really want to meet him. I have questions for him. She's like I just told you he's not here, get out of here. He snaps the door in his face again.
Speaker 1:He knocks on the door and she answers like very angrily and just basically tells him get the fuck out of here. You're right. And she yells at him. So he leaves and he's all upset. He's like I came all this way, I can't just leave. So he's just like moping around this village, like what am I going to do?
Speaker 1:So some guy sees him, takes a penny on him, like you know, could I help you? And he tells him I came all this way to see master the master and his wife keeps throwing the door in my face. He goes, he's not even home, he's in the woods. I saw him collecting wood. So he runs out into the woods and he sees him. And when he sees him, you know he sees that the big aura of this great master and all that. And he walks over to him and he just finds me. He's in the presence of this man and he had all these questions, but he can only think of one. And the master being this great, you know intuitive, you know the holy man can read his mind. And he just said she's my practice.
Speaker 1:So I thought about that for a very long time and now I'm going to switch and I'm going to think about my teacher from a Dallas point of view. And he talks about you coming to this, to this life, with a curriculum and I feel okay, like how you came in here, like you're taking care of all these people. But my teacher also told me one time, like how do you make a crooked tree straight? Because just let it be crooked Right. So I remember when I used to go to high rocks a lot to run I was running one before and there's this big, massive tree and then there was this other tree that had to grow kind of around it to get to get to sunlight of that cliff. I used to be like look at this guy that it looked cool, so crooked. But that one was the strong one, the big, straight one that goes straight up. But then we had heavy rain and one day I went to go run and that big, strong one is down on the ground Right and then made me think like oh, I perceived it as a strong one because it was nice and straight. But the other one perceived what was better.
Speaker 1:And I see that in practice as well too. You see people that don't have the perfect posture right, and earlier in my career I wanted them. You got to be straight, I want to fix their posture, and then I realized, well, there was nothing wrong with it in the first place. The posture they had is what was allowed them to go through life the way they needed to. But it seems to me life is telling you now it's time for something different. Even if that was, that was your practice before. Now the practice is still dealing with that seeing you know the woman in the house, you know, but now it's asking you to do something else with it. Do you know what I'm trying to say?
Speaker 5:Yes, it's almost as if, yes, the moral of the story is not everyone's burden is yours to carry, and as you get rid of a lot of the burden, you will tend to stand up more straighter Because you're not carrying the weight of the shoulders on you all the time.
Speaker 2:But I think you know all this. Yeah, I think you know. The thing is that I see that you have all the information. You just haven't. You're not taking the steps that you want to take. That's what's stopping you. You're scared of taking the steps. You're scared because of what you may be losing. So I'm going to ask you. No, you are, Because you're going to lose.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, I'm going to lose. I don't want, I don't want to move forward it for it to be worse than what I've endured, but I I want to be worse. Anything.
Speaker 5:But it's that your responsibility.
Speaker 3:And I just wanted to get better.
Speaker 2:Right. So I hear you and I understand, but sometimes you have to. You know those leap of faiths, they appetite. I'm going to tell you again pack a bag, leave and let the. You know, let things happen. The wind needs to happen, especially on the day or on the time that you know your husband comes back and let them handle.
Speaker 2:Now, realistically, that's what I'm really difficult to do and that's okay, it's. I'm not saying these things because I necessarily want you to make those steps. If you could actually gain changes and you can see your life change before your eyes, if you just agree to do that, if you actually wake up one morning and you say you know what I'm done, you know the hell with everything. You know I'm done, I'm just, I'm ready, I'm going to do this.
Speaker 2:The moment you say that, even though you don't follow through with actually leaving, going for a trip somewhere without you know whichever way or whatever it is that you take, whatever steps you take, just the fact that you change your perception in your mind you took, that you embodied that within yourself, will create changes. They are quite astounding. It's because the dialogue within yourself changes the moment you make those agreement with yourself. And if it changes within you, then it changes also how you. You know you reflect yourself with the conversation you have with the people around you and they're going to know and they're going to know that you mean business and they're not going to push back because they know that they can't do anything about it. But if you go, hesitantly, afraid of losing their love, losing the people, making it harder, they're going to know that and they're going to be like wild wolves, going after the weakest link and they're going to chew you up and speak you up and say how dare you try to do?
Speaker 3:what you want.
Speaker 2:It's why I'm I am trying to get you there, but there is a lot of resistance because you're still from that, in that place where you have given value to ideology, to the idea of what a mother is supposed to be and what you're supposed to be doing. It is your very attached to that. Okay, because it's been all your life. You created your identity around it. So in order for you to move forward, you have to change that identity. Oh, there you go. Now you're shifting. Oh, that's nice. Hold on a second, good, all right, that's good, give me a minute because you are moving. Okay, well, nice, good for you.
Speaker 2:I was not expecting this. I actually thought, you know, I was anticipating, not, not, but you shifted. So what happened? Even though I feel people when shift energetically, even if you don't, you may not be aware, but your subconscious has light. One thing you know something that, and it made connection. It made a connection that usually you can't go back from, you know. So that means that you've taken a step up of that wrong, you know. I mean you may look at the as if it's a long steps to the highest temple, right, and you're the first wrong. You just moved up to the second. So congratulations. And I'm not saying that it's going to be that long, because sometimes those leap of faith can can take you all the way to the top without struggling a lot. But that was good, good for you, okay. So the thing is, what is? I need you to tell me one thing that you want. What do you want? And I don't want to hear change, or I don't, I want something specific. What do you want? What do you desire, what do you wish?
Speaker 3:The first thing I always think of is a point family. I want to have a better relationship, or the word better doesn't even fit.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm going to stop you right there. Yeah, okay, because how is your relationship with yourself?
Speaker 3:Me. Yeah, I don't even know.
Speaker 2:How can you have a better relationship with your family if you don't even know if you have a relationship with yourself? Why is it that more important than your relationship with yourself?
Speaker 3:I almost put other people first. I can't remember when I was.
Speaker 2:But is that what you want?
Speaker 3:Not anymore because it doesn't serve me.
Speaker 2:Then if that's what, you, you can't, then you, you can see how the two countered it. If you, if you don't want to take care of everybody right anymore because it's tiring, you can't want. You know what you just said. I need to write something down because I forget what did you say. Now that you want a better relationship with your family Because you want to, you want to take care of them because that's what you always did. Even though it's what you always did, it's time to create a new identity.
Speaker 2:So what would be a different sentence than I always took care of everybody? Because that one is going to keep you to chain chain to your situation. So, in your mind, you need to get rid of chuck that out. That's poison, that's absolutely toxic to think that way, because by acknowledging that this is who you've been all along, you are actually manifesting the continuation of it, because you are, you're taking it as your truth. So, therefore, your thoughts and your behaviors and your, your sentences, and how you speak to yourself and how to speak to everybody else is manifesting that. Oh well, we're taking care of everybody. So why don't we change that first? Because that needs to go.
Speaker 2:That can't be sure it was true up until now, like, like Paulo said, that's the tree, the crooked tree, that has been growing that way. If you want to get to the top of the canopy of all the other trees, you need to start thinking differently. So that was your past. That's a person that you know. Sure, she's a zik state up until now, but I really don't like that life, do you? Are you happy? What is your percentage of happiness at this moment with everything that you've done with your life, the way you've been leading your life? Okay, all the decision, all the thoughts, all of it? What's your amount of happiness in percentage right now? Give me a number, I want a number.
Speaker 3:I don't know if I've maybe 25%.
Speaker 5:I don't know if I've.
Speaker 3:I cannot recall the last time I was able to make a decision and follow through with what I would.
Speaker 2:I hear you and that's a struggle and that's why I'm I'm pushing this hard, because we're trying to get you know, 40 years of therapy into one night, you know, and it can't be done. It's not impossible. I'm done it many times but but it takes. It takes some, it takes to do this kind of work. So it's more like 10% 25 is very generous, you're overestimating and I'm sorry about that but it's more like eight to 10%. And most days when you're actually at home and you you go through the motions, you go all the way down to 1%, because how much of you have you been acknowledging all your life, if not about between one to 10%. Everything else has taken the space for it, you know. So. That's the reality. So your happiness is in connection to how you've acknowledged yourself in that you know.
Speaker 2:So the first thing to do is to get rid of that sentence and that reality that, yes, it has existed, but it isn't who you are, so you're not the one that took care of everybody. That's just. It's like a job. If you go to a job and you've been at the job and then you get fired after working for someone for 35 years and let's say you were an engineer. Sure, you're still an engineer, but you're no longer working for that firm. So you can't say I work and so and so at this firm because I've been an engineer for three years.
Speaker 2:Well, you're still an engineer, so you're still a mother, you're still a woman, you're still a you know anything, but you're no longer the woman that takes care of everything and everyone, whereas everybody else's happiness is the priority, which is also a wrong thing. Your happening needs to be the priority. So think of it this way If you were on a plane, have you ever been on a plane? Yes, okay. If there was something going wrong with the plane and it starts losing, you know? And then you get the oxygen mass, what are you supposed to do?
Speaker 3:first, Take care of yourself first.
Speaker 2:Which is what you put the mask on you, right? Why do you think they tell you to do that?
Speaker 3:And then, as long as you have yourself situated, you're able to help other people.
Speaker 2:Because if you don't do that, then what happens? Okay, what's going on? Okay, you won't be around anymore, but at the same time, your family, your household, is falling apart right now. Right, because you haven't been putting on that oxygen mask all along. You've been going around giving your oxygen to everybody else's and now you're feeling the results of it, that you no longer have enough oxygen for you. And guess what? Do you think that if something were to happen to you, who will be there to take care of you as much as you've been taking care of everybody else?
Speaker 3:At this point I can't see it, and in fact do I need to no, please.
Speaker 1:When you come to see me, sometimes I feel like what you're actually coming to see me for is not for what I do. I feel like you come for that hug, I guess, honestly, and you come to hang out with the other thing as well as you're coming for that, and I feel like you come to get that interaction, to kind of get that little bit of battery to actually go back, because you know what I'm saying the love that you're looking for, and it's something we talk about a lot. It's like what you're looking for. You want it from the people that you're just not going to get it from, at least in this equation and I'm not saying that to be mean, it's just because you keep showing me the results over the years are always the same and it's not happening. So it's not in the way of talking bad about anybody, it's just that it comes before you when it's enough and I think about, like if you were taking care of your mother, if she said to you you know, anna, I want to go see the land that we came from, I want to go to Italy. I know you would have taken her to Italy, you would have cut up the take-out to Italy, but you want to go to Italy and you won't do it for yourself. And I get that. I get that because it's that conditioning that he had.
Speaker 1:But something that I keep learning more and more when I look at like our spiritual heroes Jesus Great, but Jesus, but whoever it was, it's a story. I don't know why. I've been reflecting on this story a lot of, when Jesus is walking and that woman touches his you know his quote and gets here. He didn't do anything, in fact, he wasn't even looking at the baby, right, but it was him, you know. I mean, how could he have done that? How could he have done that if he wasn't good with him first? And then it goes from there. That ripple goes from there.
Speaker 1:But my thing was, I always thought you had to wear yourself like until you're nothing less to your totally run down, and I think that we confuse that with ego, but it's not. In fact, I think this is more ego than doing that, because you, your identity is I'm like this I'm the good mom, I take care of you, I do. But what if it's not? What if you're? What if that's not who you are? You've just, you've just created this that you are, and it's not saying to get rid of that, but it's time for Anna to say, to sit in that place of who you are and tell that Anna, the mother that's been with that boy, it's okay now, because now I'm going to take care of things.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, so I think I'm going to continue with that when people, when whether it's abuse, because in a way it was abuse to to have you as young as you were, you know take charge of taking care of an adult as often happens in children when there is the, the parent, one of the parents is sick, they stop being children and they start being you know taking care of things. So you become an adult very quickly. And then, on top of that, you were praying to Jesus Christ that you would became even, that you grew up fast. You could help your family. What happens is that the love, the love that you knew prior to that point, which was, you know, an exchange between you and your parents, the love that is interpreted from that point on was if I am a good helper, if I am a good caretaker, then I'm going to be loved.
Speaker 2:That's the identity and that's the struggle with most people. Because, when, because that's such a pervasive embodiment on a subconscious level, where the only community version of love that you know is to be taking care of someone else's and you mentioned it more than once I've always done this. This is who I am, but that's also your, the way that you love someone, but also the way that you're anticipating love to come to you. So if you're not getting the care, someone doesn't care about you, both in not that they have to physically take care of you, but in a sense, where they're not paying attention to you, they're not being considerate, and that's everybody in every relationship. But there is this, this understanding from a child point of view, that the only thing that they translate is that now the love becomes like, not an object, but there is, there is an expectation that, as for as long as I am this person, I'm gonna be loved, and so you entrap yourself into that cycle, never ending cycle, and there you go, you're shifting again. That's nice.
Speaker 2:It's coming from the front, though, which is good, and what it means is that, for as long as this is why I told you before you need to get rid of that sentence, that truth, because that truth is attached to the way that you interpret love and being loved, and so you trap yourself in there, so you can't identify to that anymore, because that, yes, it was rooted to your childhood, but as children, we don't understand love, and we start enmashing it with these interpretations, and then it gets us into trouble, and so the I have to put everybody else's before me because I'm not important enough. Because in order for a child that you're at the age of eight to become you know the caretaker your needs, you have to completely become, you know, oblivious to your needs, oblivious to your wants. Nothing really matters. And I'm sure that if you didn't do what you were supposed to do, you probably weren't considered a good child, or you know good enough. And so now you can see how everything is translated around you being a caretaker and a good one. And so what did you do all your life? You make sure that that's what you stay, because as long as I do this, I'm going to be loved.
Speaker 2:But love is unconditional. That means it's not dependent on condition. You're shifting it and the condition of if I am good, if I take care of everybody, if I make everybody happy, then I'm going to be loved. That's a condition. That means that you're not really loving unconditionally. You're loving with the condition and therefore you're getting back love with the condition. It's why Grace this harmony in pen. It creates disruption between families and people and when you're you're, it's the try to establish a boundary. Then you get that pushback, like you did tonight.
Speaker 2:Do you understand what I'm saying? Yes, so if you want to give unconditional love to your children because you love them that much you love them that much and I know you do and you want to have a better relationship, you need to start thinking about I need to give this love unconditionally, and that means it's not about their happiness. You don't love them to make them happy. You don't love them to change your life or to you know to to create something, to do something for them. There can be something that I do for them and then if you start doing that, you start seeing that I do. They accept you for who you are and you accept them for who they are and you get to that place where you're actually loving and having interaction and translations of unconditional love between all of you. It takes time and there is a little bit of turmoil that comes with that, but eventually everybody settles really nicely in it. The first person that needs to understand it is you.
Speaker 3:With having so many, so many, with being apart from everybody for so long. They keep telling me they don't want to, they don't want to come back because they don't want to be around their sister, who's home with me, the 32-year-old, because she's a lot of personality, and then no one wants to. No one really wants to be around dad, because you never know how it's gonna approach them and what's gonna. What's gonna set them off, yeah, and then the peacemaker. So I try to, you know, try to have everybody peaceful and have it peaceful so we can enjoy ourselves.
Speaker 2:What? If you didn't do that, why are you making? Why did you decide to you know, do that Because they are adults after all. Right, so they can handle themselves.
Speaker 3:No, I haven't had that I haven't had that chance. When the twins, the babies, you know everybody left, you know they left their, they left pretty much their things and the way it was and the house is still the way they at their rooms and stuff. No one wants to come back and clean their things or get their things. Or I haven't had that chance. I just got lucky when COVID hit because the twins were in Pittsburgh and had to come home because nobody was allowed. So I had that little chunk of time with them. But the other three that well, the one that was really close, she doesn't want to come around.
Speaker 3:Because, Because she doesn't like how it is at home with her sister.
Speaker 5:And how sister is that? The one that has sonnets? The kids?
Speaker 2:or she has a child. Yeah, she has a child, and why is she in the house with you?
Speaker 3:She has nowhere else to go Does she work. No.
Speaker 5:That's part of the problem, right there, absolutely.
Speaker 3:See, I don't have a say in that. Again, I was raised, you know, where the father was in charge, and my mom, you know, made sure everything was directed by dad. So I did the same thing. I don't think my choice of dad was the right.
Speaker 5:There's a little bit of a difference in generations. And I think you know my family, my background is Italian too, and the men in the family usually took on the roles to support the family and do what they needed to do. But we also grow up in a time where, like when I was younger, I had more responsibilities or we weren't babied too much. Right.
Speaker 5:Today it's easier say maybe for your daughter to stay home, because it's a lot tougher for someone to have a job and save up enough money to have a buy house, or even rent an apartment, for that matter. And is she a single person? Pretty much.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 5:She comes with a lot of background too, so she also has the child, that she has to think of who's going to take care? Take care, for example, or something like that how old is the child?
Speaker 5:He's eight, eight. So there will be someone that needs to baby set the child when she does, if she does have a job. I think, as time goes on, we tend to baby or do so much for our children that we actually enable them to be in a particular place and time and they don't want to leave that situation because everything is being taken care of for them. Going back to what we were saying earlier, that you're not responsible for an adult to take care of themselves, I mean for you to take care of them. They need to take care of themselves, they need to figure out what to do. You know to have daycare or you know where this child will go. You've bitten off more than you can chew, you know, and it's taking the toll A lot of it, and I'm not saying this in a negative way.
Speaker 5:There is ego there, but the ego isn't like a narcissistic type of energy, like your husband has. It's more like, well, I want to feel loved. So the more I do for everybody, the more they will love me because I'm helping, I'm doing everything for them. But that can be coming from a place of lacking something that you're seeking and by doing something for someone else, and they give you the attention or they make you feel like you're fulfilling a role, you feel needed and wanted and loved. But it's not. It's a dependency.
Speaker 5:There's a book that I read from Eric Cartol on New Earth or there's two of them, I think it's one of the first ones on New Earth and he talks a lot about that. If you can go through this exercise I mean, maybe we could do this right now if you can go through this exercise where you step out of your body and now you're looking at yourself and you look at your husband, but when you step out of the body you're not taking any emotion out of it. There is no emotion. You're just a witness, sort of like God would be watching you and watching your husband. There's no judgment there. What he sees is a husband taking advantage of a great situation where he can do whatever he wants, he can live his life. He can come back to his house just for a short time, do whatever he needs to do, and then it disappears again. Then we have the wife.
Speaker 5:Now you're looking at yourself in the eyes of God Again no emotion, just observing, and you see someone who's doing so much for everyone because there's a void inside her that she needs to fill. And that void could have been since you were a child or maybe later in life. But there's something there that makes you feel that you need to do this to be accepted and loved by everybody else. But when you are in this situation where you're observing yourself again, no emotion, you're just looking. You say what would be the best for this person which is myself rarely but you're looking at yourself in a place of non-judgment.
Speaker 5:You're looking at a place. You're looking at a place. You're looking at yourself from a place of what that person needs to do to be happy. And one question I would ask you is if you were to get a divorce and this is hypothetical, I'm not saying to do it or not to do it how would your life change? Would you still have to be taking care of everybody, or would you be able to now have more freedom, because maybe you can now. You have your mother, you said you're still taking care of her.
Speaker 5:No, she's passed, okay, so is there anyone that you need to take care of?
Speaker 3:Her dog, my 27 year old.
Speaker 5:The 20, and that's the one that has special needs. Okay, if you're married and you have to take care of your 27 year old daughter and you have certain responsibilities, and if you're divorced? Or if you're divorced and you still have your 27 year old daughter to take care of, but without all that baggage? Without all that luggage, how much different is your life? So if you're married, is there really a benefit? If you're divorced, what would be the benefits?
Speaker 5:And if you see yourself from a place of non-judgment, again, in no motion, you can actually see yourself without the ego. It's like oh no, you can't get divorced. Oh no, you gotta do this. Oh no, you can't do that. No, what would happen if you were to have a life where you don't have to take worry about your husband and worry about when he comes home, what is he going to freak out about? Is he going to be upset?
Speaker 5:Or my daughter, for example, you know, is it really that bad of a thing for her to get a job? I mean, she is 32 years old. Where is it written that you are responsible to raise someone up until the point where you, one day, before you, step into a grave? She's 32 years old. She needs to move on with her life and take on responsibilities. Yes, so the age of empowering in a sense comes to an end. There is someone that you know, the 27-year-old daughter, and I'm not saying this that you have to take care of her, because I'm not really a doctor and so I don't know what you could and shouldn't do. But still, as a mother, you want the best for her and taking care of her makes you happy. That's fine, but not because it fills a void in your heart. It's because it's the right thing to do. But everybody else, they're grown adults and if you can see that without putting your fear, your anxiety and all that into this mix, because it really will cloud your judgment If you could just shove all those emotions to the side and just see for what it is, you would say that version of me being here would really make me happy, because then, maybe a week or a month out of the year, or a couple of times a year, I can have someone to take care of my daughter while I travel.
Speaker 5:The free time that it may have because I'm not worried about every single body else in my life, I can take up painting, writing, music, going through yoga, shopping, going, antique hunting my God, the endless of all the things that you could do. I don't know what your heart is, what your passion for life is, but there might be something there someplace, like I would love to do that, why not? What are you waiting for when you're 80 years old and you can't pick up a pen anymore To draw? This is the time Now. Simone mentioned what I was talking about. I saw on the Dr Phil's show because it really made a lot of sense. He had a ruler out on the floor and had everybody stand well, the two people in this particular episode at their age and he says this is the normal age Life expense. Thank God.
Speaker 2:I couldn't think of the word. And if someone?
Speaker 5:was 70 years old. We've got 10 years left. What are you waiting for? If you're 60,? Well, you've got 20, start now and start enjoying it. You worked all your life, we all worked all our lives to get to a certain point. We're not supposed to do it forever. And I'm a family man too. I have kids of my own, but I've raised them and now they're on their own and they're taking care of their lives. I'm always there for them, but I'm not taking care of every single aspect of their life. I'm not feeding them, I'm not doing their laundry or all the little things that many parents do.
Speaker 5:If, again, it's something for you to think about, if filing for divorce will help you, let go a whole lot of that baggage and luggage, because you're not responsible for everybody. You're not Just like they're not responsible for you, do they go out of their way for you. So how much do you do for them before you say enough is enough? Because now you're furpling them and enabling them and they're becoming handicapped because they don't know how to function on their own. But they're not responsible for you. They know how to function on their own. But Simone made a good point that if you were say, I mean, this is all hypothetical. If you were to file for divorce and you get a smaller place where you're tad, just two bedrooms, you and your 27-year-old daughter, your other daughter, said, wow, what am I going to do? Get a job. You're like I don't. That's up to you. Go to dad ask him for help. But I don't.
Speaker 5:I'm honey, 32 years old. You got to learn to stand on your own two feet. I'm not going to be around forever. Go ahead, just do what you need to do. Yeah, but I'm sorry. It's not the end of the world. They're not going to like it and they're not going to be happy, but it is the right thing to do Because, again, if you're standing over here looking at yourself and looking at your husband and looking at your daughters and other family members, the best gift that you can give them is learning, is having them learn to stand on their own two feet.
Speaker 5:They're not going to like it, they're not going to be happy with you, they're going to rebel. They may throw a tantrum, go ahead, but in the eyes of God, or in the eyes of your higher self, you did the best loving thing you could do for these people, because you gave them the gift for them to grow up and to be responsible for themselves. And if they hate you for it, you know what.
Speaker 4:It's not the end of the world because you can look in the mirror and say I did the right thing.
Speaker 5:They don't know it yet, but at some point, maybe 10, 20, 30 years down the line, they're going. You know what? I'd like to thank my mom, because I was upset with her for the longest time, but she saved my life by doing that what she needed to do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm not looking for any kind of thank you or a pound of the back right now. I look at it at a six, four, four good.
Speaker 3:My special needs daughter is, in my opinion, a few notches above my 32-year-old. My 32-year-old has many, many things, many poor decisions. She's gone down a totally different path and, from spending this time with her and my husband not being there, my subconscious her name starts with an M. My husband's name starts with an M. I will call her my husband's name and it's the way that she's him personified down form. And I'm seeing it more and more and I never noticed it before.
Speaker 5:Because they act and behave the same way, so you confuse their names.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Because unless you're looking at them, you would think it's the other person.
Speaker 3:And occasionally my husband's not here as much anymore. I would call my husband my dad If I was talking to people and say, oh yeah, my dad, I mean my husband a lot.
Speaker 5:That's very you know. That says a lot right there, because you might be holding on to him for the wrong reasons. Something for you to think about.
Speaker 3:When I had my special needs started the night before. I had no idea how, what was going to happen after birth. I just had this overwhelming, overwhelming feeling of doom and I gathered the other three together and I was telling them practically everything. My oldest one told me a few years ago wow, we thought she was going to die or something. I don't remember what I said, but the dread that I felt was beyond anything I've ever experienced before.
Speaker 5:And uh, Well, maybe part of you did die at that time.
Speaker 3:When I had her and you know everybody's being all hush hush, you know, you know there's something going on, but they don't want to tell you. It was until after her she came in and said, and I in my head, I already my life flashed forward. I mean, I went years. I'm like I'm going to do this. I already know, I already knew my pardon me my sentence of life with my mom. I had a really good idea how that was going. We already knew progression and how it was going to be. I said to my husband, when we came home, I ran away. I ran away, I left him with the kids. He didn't give a shit and didn't even bother to look for me, which, okay, I just couldn't. I just couldn't anymore. It was just too much.
Speaker 5:You can check it out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it wasn't long, it was only hours. For me it was long and I said I don't want to do this. I just want to. I really want to give her away. I just don't want it. It's like we got this. I'm going to help you. He hasn't. I'm the one who's been there. All the surgeries, all the meetings, all the doctors, all that. So I feel really bad, Really guilty for thinking those things. I mean, I love her, I just don't like it.
Speaker 2:I think that's very normal. I think a lot of parents are going to have to deal with it because it is a life sentence and you love your children no matter what. But that's, that's, it's work. It's never ending, and especially if it all lands on your shoulders. So don't judge yourself for it.
Speaker 3:Thank you. The 32 year old she has issues too, and after years of all kinds of therapies and having people in the house, out of the house, we still haven't gotten anywhere. Because I believe she is stuck in something I don't know how to. And again, I feel responsible because I am a mom. I don't know how to push her over that edge. It's not like it's not like she hasn't done things, but she's always found a way to get into trouble. Okay.
Speaker 2:She's going to tell you what you need to do on that. You need to. You know Leah was hinting at that before, but the best way to do it is to start seeing everybody as capable.
Speaker 3:Hey, excuse me, yeah thank you, I tell her. You know I'm back here, I'm watching, I'm trying to be an observer.
Speaker 3:I see what the heck. And I see how she treats her son and how she's grooming her son to be her little. Yes, she, she doesn't get off the couch, she directs it. She doesn't care if he's not feeling well. He has lots of issues, but physical issues she doesn't care. Do this, do that? Run up and down here and I said I thought he's supposed to be resting and he's fine. So that made me pull back further, because I don't, I can't, I just can't. I don't know how she turned into this person who doesn't who's who's putting her needs first.
Speaker 3:And then again okay you just yes.
Speaker 3:yes, I don't put my needs first, she has her needs every day, every day, her needs pile up, pile up, and I'm not doing it, for I don't do her laundry. I, you know, I direct her. We need you know, we need this and that we can't, we can't navigate, we can't do stuff I said you need to Doesn't listen. Her father comes home Sometimes. I mean I was letting him know and of course, when he'd come home and he'd say to her your mother says well, that would set her off until the tirade, but he would do it on purpose. So now I and.
Speaker 3:I'd never do it. I let him see what's going on and he'll say how come? And I don't answer. I look the other way or I get up and walk away. I let them deal with it, Because I don't want to. If you can't, if you can't see, I mean you've, we've known.
Speaker 3:My husband and I had been together for 45 years, married for 40, we weren't. We did not live together. That's how long it took to get married and I don't mean to talk about that stretch of time If you don't know me like I know. I know him like the back of my head. He doesn't know that I don't. This isn't how I do stuff.
Speaker 3:I mean, I had everything. You have lots of kids and you take care of everybody. You need order, you need, you need things to not to be just so, but things need to be neat and tidy. So people knew what to do, where to go, everybody got out of the door on time. Everyone's needs again were met. Yes, everybody pitched in, but that one and it was okay with that, that's okay. That's okay. I'm like no, it's not okay. We got to be united force here. I don't want to I can't think of the word go against the child, but we need to be a united force so we can let her know that, hey, we're not going to put up with this. You got to, you got, you know, you got stuff to do.
Speaker 2:The thing is, when there is two parents that they're not, you know, you delegate it. You said it because that's how your father, you saw your mother do this and that's what you thought needed to be to be happening in your own household and you delegated the decision making to your husband and your daughter took advantage of that. She had all their makeup to, you know, the other kids. They did something different, but she chose to do. You know, she chose herself. Not well, but it's. It was created because of the delegation to it. You know, outside of, these are stories. Okay, if you really want to get into a different place, these stories are okay to have and to rehearse and to think about and to keep record of of. You know, especially the story of I was raised this way. Everything that starts with I've always been this way, I've always done it this way, this is how it was raised and I saw my mother do this and all that. These are chains. You're choosing to put chains on yourself. Okay, now, I understand there was no understanding of that prior to this, but in this moment I'm telling you those are chains. Anything pertaining to that is a chain to yourself into the situation you're in right now. If you want to change it, you need to start by changing that. It always there's two kinds of people, at least that, or at least there are two kinds of behavior that people adopt. You either are a. You put it's either me before everyone else or everyone else before me. You either act everybody acts from one point or the other, usually the people. They are self-sacrificing, like what you've been living your life with, that it's everybody else before me. Inevitably they always pair with the person that says me before everyone else. You're a perfect match. Why not? It's a perfect match in heaven. You're self-sacrificing and he is ecotistical. So what's the problem there? There's no problem. It's a perfect match. Is it uncomfortable after so many years? Yes, of course. It wasn't what you envisioned and it took so long. One of the children became one of that and the other one. There's another one probably. That is self-sacrificing because it's what they saw their parents do. It's inevitable that there are a bunch of children that they will have these characteristics because it's what they observe their parents do. They saw one parent choosing themselves over everyone else and they saw another parent choosing everyone else before that, before everybody before themselves.
Speaker 2:You can start by keeping track of how often you put yourself first on a daily basis. You want to make a change. You need to start doing that and you need to put yourself first. It doesn't have to be a huge decision, but they have to be decisions that you, when you find yourself facing in front of it, like you said, you walk away from your daughter, you don't get involved in anything. But you're not necessarily making a decision to put yourself first, you're just dealing with the situation. You're just kind of trying to. You know, I don't want to see it, I don't want to handle it. So that's not making the decision of putting yourself first. So you need to start doing that.
Speaker 2:The more you do it, the better. It's going to get a UN understanding and recalibrating, because right now, your calibration into understanding how you know what it is to be taking care of yourself is completely off kilter. So for you even taking the time to come here tonight, even though you made that decision or to leave your children or to not have your children around you, it's a huge sacrifice, because that's your calibration. You think that all those things need to happen. Right, but none of those things are putting yourself first. You're putting it there, all things are talking about everybody else's, but you, you know. So, in as you start doing that, as you start addressing every day, you start noticing and wondering and observing yourself and what you do, how you act and how you think and where your reaction to other people, behaviors, and you start addressing, asking yourself was this the decision that I made with me before everyone else, so everyone else before me, and then keep track and see how often do you do it. Do you do it all day long? Well, guess what? You just threw yourself under the bus all day long.
Speaker 2:You can choose to do something different. Is it challenging? It can be challenging, but it can get you. Start small. Even if you make one small decision every day, it will lead you to some change, even within a month. It will make it easier for you to start seeing that you know that you're going to start recalibrating and start getting more adjusted into putting yourself first, without feeling selfish or guilty or responsible for everyone else. So if you need to step, start somewhere. That's where I would start. If you don't take care of that, if you don't get a handle on that, like really take and you know, like embody it and understand it there's. I can't tell you to do something else, because that's the first step.
Speaker 2:And in order for you to do that, you need to stop also kind of questioning how you were raised. How you were raised was a teaching, but it's the same as if someone tells you every day well, for you to find, in order for you for me to love you, you have to jump off that bridge. Would you jump off that bridge? Why not? So it's somebody else's belief system, it's what they, how they did things, but it doesn't mean that you have to be okay with it. So you're going to have to start kind of look at it from you know what.
Speaker 2:That wasn't healthy. And since it wasn't healthy and it didn't lead me to happiness to live this way, you know it didn't lead me to just be a happy woman with everything that I thought I was going to get I need to start chucking these things away, not because they never existed, but not embody them in the way where well, this is who I am. You have to start changing your identity around it. So you have to separate yourself from those things. So my parents were a certain type of parents. There's a ton of abuse and all that kind of thing, you know. But it doesn't mean that that's.
Speaker 2:I don't define myself, but who they were, that's not my identity anymore. Sure, I experienced certain things, but I'm looking more at the products. What came out of that, you know, and what, how it transformed me and how I was able to transform myself from that too. I don't look at that as being my history. I look at those being small events or events that happen in my life. They're not small, but they're events. You know even the way I label it. You see, they're small events, but if I tell you where they were, you'll be like oh you know. So they're not small, but because I define them that way, they're not in charge of my life. But the way you're describing yourself, you're putting what happened to you and how your parents defined their life. It's become who you are, how you define yourself. So they're in charge of your life right now.
Speaker 2:Is that what you want? Then you need to change all that and you do it by observing daily your thoughts, your actions and your steps. That means that if you're an observer, like we were saying, you kind of step back and you think you're going to make coffee. You get up in the morning, what do you do first? And I just said, why do I do this first.
Speaker 2:You know, there was someone that came to me looking for a change in their lives too. And this person, first thing, you know, always had to make the bed every day, first thing, as soon as they get out of bed. And when I asked them, you know why was that? No, because I grew up in a, you know, my father was in the army, in a military, and this is how we were trained and this is what we had to do. So I can't not do that. And when I asked, but is that what you want? Is that what you want to do? And that was such a foreign thing to ask to this person that she had this look in her face where, you know, then realizes like no.
Speaker 2:I don't. So you need to start looking into your life and everything that you do and everything that you don't do and ask yourself, feeling the truth from like what you eat, how you brush your you know you brush your hair, what you wear, how you address anything from. You have to examine your life and start choosing, picking and choosing. Is this mine? Does this belong to my parents? Is this? Am I doing this because I learned it from someone. But if I learn it from someone, I can choose. I can choose to whether I want it or not, and if I don't want it because it doesn't make me happy, I can choose someone who replace it with something else. So those two things, to do them together for even a month, every day, on a daily basis, will bring you changes. But from where you're at, you know you'll have to take small steps. You can do beeps and bounds unless you're really, really ready. But you're not. Otherwise you would already been gone and pack your bags and you would have. You would have gone somewhere.
Speaker 2:The moment I told you it's time to go with the very first five minutes we sat down, you know, but you didn't. So you didn't pack your bags and go. So you're going to have to take the small steps and the changes are going to happen over time. That's really the best that I can tell you to do and to stick to that one. And after you're done with that one, then there'll be other things that you can do. But your focus, and sole focus, needs to be on that. It's how you build your foundation. First, you got to build the foundation. You didn't have it. You don't have it, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I did Come on and I feel as if I'm still looking for, as you said, still looking for love, still looking for the love of my life, you know, the Disney princess, with the light shining on her.
Speaker 2:If you don't make these changes, you're going to find another one, just like your dad, just like your husband, just like everybody else. You can't. You know, I wouldn't. I would tell you, no, don't even bother, because you're going to pick the wrong person. You're not.
Speaker 2:You have to really think of it as if you have the way you view the world, you're viewing through glasses that only let you see someone who will give you an opportunity for you to be the enabler and the subservient person and the one, the giver and the doer and the you know. And you're going to recreate the same situation, even if you think it's going to be different. It's going to end up being the same because you are acting from that point and in that, the way you act and the way you think and the way you are, you are with everything in your life. So you can't think that you're going to not bring that with you, no matter where you go. So you want to change. You got to start with you, and what I told you to do will help you build a better relationship with yourself. I am putting your focus on you and that's where you need to start doing.
Speaker 3:And I hope my girls focus on their selves too, instead of I don't know. I don't know what they saw or see in me.
Speaker 2:Well, that thought right there. As much as I appreciate your compassion for the mother that you are, for as old as they are, it tells me that it's almost as if you took a huge leap backward from where you were. You went immediately into the caretaker role, right there, no, no, but if I didn't do a good enough job showing them that?
Speaker 3:so will they fall down the same rabbit hole I'm in, unfortunately? What does that have to do with now?
Speaker 1:So like, even if let's say that yes, let's say the answer is yes to that, what does it matter now if you start changing yourself now? It's what I do with. The past is the past.
Speaker 2:What you're doing right now. You're creating a self-sabotage story immediately, right now. There you go. You actually that's, and you do that all the time. You do it all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I never yes, okay, because your immediate response to a change, which was minute, what I'm asking you to do for a month is small, small, small, small, comparing to if you were to think about really putting it into reality. Once you put it into reality and but you know your subconscious self, you're inner children which you know with their ego immediately they were like no, no, no, that's dangerous, because if we change, I know that's going to bring changes and that's too dangerous. And so you start, ever immediately creating a self-sabotage, which is always the resort to go to make your children more important than you. They're adult, okay, after 18. And I'm not saying look, I'm your mother too and I care, I absolutely adore my children, I'll do anything for them. But whatever I did or didn't do, as a parent, the only thing that I can say or think about is the fact that, first of all, I know they're capable. If they want to, they're going to figure it out, just like I did.
Speaker 2:And whenever that is, it's going to be, whenever it's ready for them, there's nothing I can do or say that it's going to bring any change in their lives, because they're adult. If they want to make a change, they will do it themselves if they choose. Same as you're sitting right here, not because your mother or your father even if they were here they told you oh my god, we're so worried about you, you should, you need to change your life. Even if they told you that, what would you have done? Shard your shoulder, went on and did the same thing, right when you just would have continued your path, because you're an adult and you're going to make your decision. They're going to do the same thing. There's nothing you can do about it. All you can do is see them capable. They're plenty capable. If you got this far, so can they.
Speaker 5:Here's another way of looking at it, it might actually make you feel better too about it. You believe you have. Well, you believe most people, everybody has a life purpose and that they're put here to experience certain things and to do what they need to do from those experiences, whether they heal from it, succumb to it and hit rock bottom before they make a change or whatever. Well, just as you have your journey that you're going through, and you are going to that point where you need to make a life change that will benefit yourself, so your life has a more meaningful purpose and is more joy and your heart is open and there's no more pain or more suffering, so does your daughter have a journey too, and maybe part of that journey is to hit rock bottom so she can learn to stand on their own two feet. That there's a valuable lesson for her to learn. But she can't learn it if someone's always protecting her, someone's always carrying her, someone's always doing something.
Speaker 5:Someone has to take the scissors and cut that cord and she goes oh my god, what the hell Like? Oh shit, okay, I guess I gotta do it. Well, I guess I gotta get up and go to a job, or I gotta look for, oh, I gotta go grocery shopping or I gotta clean the apartment. By not cutting that cord, you're not allowing her to fulfill her life and go in her journey, and there's no right or wrong to it. She will learn to stand on her own two feet, but you gotta let her stand on her own two feet. You gotta take those crutches away, because as long as she has that crutch or that wheelchair, she's not gonna stand on her own.
Speaker 5:And this is what I was saying before. It's kind of like tough love. Your highest self knows that. Well, the only way she's gonna learn to be productive in society and to be a mature adult and act accordingly is if you throw her out there. Because now she has to make a choice, because it's a choice out of need Not that she wants to, but she has to.
Speaker 2:It's also true, it's very true what you're saying, because oftentimes, especially between parents and children, there is enormous karma contract. You know entanglements, energetic entanglement too, just so that the parent experiences are certain things and the child experiences are certain things. So you are to you, if you're the self-sacrificing which you are, the self-sacrificing always putting everybody in front of you, before yourself, of course you're gonna get a child, and the one child that stays at home is the one that puts themselves in front because you're to learn from her that that's what you're supposed to do. And the moment you start doing that, you release her from actually being that person. She may still have some of those behaviors, but they may not. They're not going to be as predominant.
Speaker 2:You've probably seen over time getting worse and worse because you keep refusing to put yourself before everyone else. You keep wanting to persist and insist into putting everybody before you, and so she's going worse and worse and worse. Oftentimes, when the person starts adapting a new behavior and they start changing and really start doing things differently, you start seeing that everybody around you changes as well, especially if they're all entangled and I'm pretty sure she's entangled in that one. So you'd be releasing her from having to be that person along with everybody else, because that's the other thing. That would be the second lesson we're not victims. We're not victims, we have choices, we can do it. So you know.
Speaker 5:The analogy where the bird kicks out the chicks from the nest is a good example of the mother is not having emotions about it. Like, well, what happens if I let them out of the nest and they fall down and they get hurt and then they have a fear and then they don't want to learn to fly because their first experience wasn't successful. That's all the drama, all the negative talking of the ego mind. The fact is the bird I'm assuming birds don't have drama, but the bird is like this is for your own good, you will make, you will succeed, you will learn to fly and you will do it.
Speaker 5:There's that's one point, and there's another point that I want to make too is there are groups that I joined on Facebook about fitness and every once in a while this blows my mind, but every once in a while they show you a picture of a man who has maybe no arms from the elbow down or no legs from the knee down, yet he's over there and again he's just has a few inches off his shoulder as a you know from his arm, and he's got like a little bit of bicep and he's got like chest muscles and shoulder muscles. I would imagine it is difficult to build muscle when you don't have the full length of your, of your limbs. You know for leverage and to lift things and you know to burden the man with one leg. He had no leg from the knee down yet his thigh muscles were were like they wouldn't. They were defined and they looked nice.
Speaker 5:I mean, he's like, how does he do that? People find a way when they have a strong will to survive and they have no choice to deal with what they have, they make the best of it. You know, nobody enabled them. They just had to do what they needed to do. They had a dream, they had a passion for something and, despite their physical limitations, they, they went and they did it anyway.
Speaker 5:It's truly amazing, you know, or the person, I mean, he's somewhat famous. I've seen him many times out there where he has no arms and no legs, but he wanted to go swimming and they, they, they, they said it all and he got married.
Speaker 5:He got married to a woman who, you know, doesn't have any kind of handicaps, at least visible hand. Physically there were no handicaps, but they loved each other and they got married and he goes swimming with her and he'll go on a canoe with her, and it didn't stop him from enjoying life. And here is someone like I would think that if I had no arms and no legs, I just want to sit home and watch TV all day long, all day long. But yet he's going out there and he's enjoying life. He's he's doing things that most people will never do. So everybody will find a way to to somewhere in their journey, to find what they need to do to survive, to enjoy life, to make the best of it. You know, but it's not your responsibility to hold them by the hand for the rest of their lives. You have to let go without the burden of you know what if I made the wrong decision?
Speaker 5:No it's it is the right decision there is.
Speaker 5:There comes a point where someone just has to, really, short of having like a severe mental handicap of some sort with an unable to the brain, is not why you'd properly fit them to make a conscious, mature decision. There's no reason why your daughter can go to work and can't provide for herself and grow up a little bit mature and take the responsibilities and heal whatever it is that she needs to heal. But because that is her journey too, it's not your journey to interfere with her journey, just as her journey should be interfering with your journey. It's, you know, tough love, or whatever you want to call it. But you did everything and now it's like I'm sorry, honey, you have to take care of yourself, and we're not going to do this in baby steps. You're going to start from now on, from starting today, because they need that wake up call, they need that shock, they need to hit rock bottom somehow for them to just wake up and realize, okay, I can't ride this wave anymore, it's time for me to do what I gotta do.
Speaker 2:What disability does your daughter have? She downs in them, yes, okay, what do you have like a plan if something were to happen to you?
Speaker 3:At this time. No, it's been. I try to. You know, bring people together because we I want to start with the family first to see if anybody's interested. You know, and I'm not, I'm not pushing and I've told them before. It's a lot of responsibility. I've had the responsibility. I'm not going to designate anybody. You're not interested, but let me know. Then she become a ward of the state.
Speaker 2:Once I passed away, and would that be the best for her? I mean, you put all this energy in her. If I'm not here for her, I, there's nothing I could do, but usually the life expectancy is not very long.
Speaker 3:But it is getting better. I mean, yeah, that a young man just celebrated his 74th birthday, so I know, so that. But you know, with yeah, I mean she has a, she has a lot of potential.
Speaker 2:What about a group home?
Speaker 3:There there are group homes. Again, I would while I'm here and she's still my responsibility. She's in the group home, just like my older children. You know they're living on their own. You have to watch the group homes they have. So she is living in a group home then? No, no, she's with me. Okay, but if I at some point in time, if I die, she becomes a ward of the state or I can be she wouldn't put your husband automatically.
Speaker 3:Like saying if you went before, I mean, yeah, Well, legally I would imagine it would go to him. Yes.
Speaker 5:Unless he protests or something.
Speaker 3:Exactly. But he said, you know, when the kids turned 18, that he had nothing to do with it anymore. So, except for the 32 year old at home. So, yeah, that's, we have to have a legal document, and that's where I can't get anybody to. You know, they got to let me know If something happens. I'm not, I'm not even counting on my husband Because he, he won't be there. I already, I already know this, so it's not worth my energy, so I have to figure with their health does anybody else want to step in, and if not, I have to have paperwork saying that she becomes a ward of the state.
Speaker 3:She should have not been around, that has to be. And even to take her to the, to the doctors and to the hospital To ask you for that. Yeah, there's paper, the paperwork, because she's not capable to answer all the questions and do all the things for herself. So I had to go and, you know, put my name down, and of course, my husband, since we're still married, he has to put his name down. I can't get him to sign the paper. So therefore, the paper is not binding, because it can't be just me when we're divorced. It can be just me. And again, that leaves me with that responsibility. I'm trying to release the baggage.
Speaker 3:I keep telling myself, but is it right for me to do that? It doesn't feel. It doesn't feel right Like I should do that. But I don't know. You know I don't know how to make space for myself and keep her in it, because she's a lot of work and I'm trying to make space for me and trying to get her to do her own thing. You know there are programs out there for her and I had her in them and it's great. And then the funding stopped and I said to my husband well, let's do this. No, no, no, he's done, he's done enough. I can't fund it. I don't. I'm a reporter and he has his brother has a special needs, has a down syndrome, daughter too. The difference is night and day.
Speaker 5:There's different levels of severity.
Speaker 1:What do you mean by that? What do you?
Speaker 3:mean Parents who are united and who stand with the child and work with the child, and the father spends a lot of time with the child compared to what I do.
Speaker 5:I have a family member that had a sibling with down syndrome and she was a I don't know if the right term a functioning, but she was able to get on a bus and go do work in a hospital. I don't know what it is that she did and then, at the end of the day, you know her shift. Whatever she'd get back on the bus to go home. But not all you can put them in that same category. Some are, I don't know, with your daughter.
Speaker 3:With the training you have to have. You have to have money. The other family members they have lots of money.
Speaker 3:You have lots of money. You can do it. You can get what you need. You can pay people. I work with her but I don't have as much opportunities, you know, and again it's the mom it's. I think my daughter would benefit. She benefits more from having other people's influence over her. With me I get the push back and even though she's 27, she kind of acts like a teenager sometimes or even younger. So you know, we have to start over again and it's constant. We get so far and then we roll back and it's. It's daunting and it's sometimes you just feel like you're banging your head against the wall.
Speaker 5:You're spinning your wheels.
Speaker 3:You know you want, you know she's got the potential, you know it, and I'm come on, you've got this, let's do this, and but when she takes her heels in, I can't even move her physically, right then, because she wants it that way and I don't want it that way. If, if we were on the same, if she and I were on the same page, yeah, I wouldn't mind traveling with her. It'd be great.
Speaker 3:But it doesn't work that way A good percentage of the time. I mean even, just even. Just what do I do every morning? I'm trying to. I'm sitting here trying to think what's the changes that you make? Every day, I get up, every day, I wake her up and we take a shower. She wouldn't even shower herself. Is she capable? Yeah, yes and no. It's like, you know, like washing a car, you know some people, just it's like this, where you really need to. She's not into that part yet, but I there's other people- at the house isn't there?
Speaker 5:Yeah, well, they're not helpful, yeah, but if you put it on, if you put it on, you'll probably know about it.
Speaker 3:My 30, my 32 year old does not even take care of herself I generally, and she has an eight year old and you try, you try.
Speaker 5:I think, I think at some point you may need to like I'm thinking I'm talking out loud here, you know, maybe Simone has a better idea but like to look at what options you have, because it will take a toll on you health wise. You know you're getting to that point now and that's just. I can see it out too. You know, with you physically in front of me, it's just your heart's breaking and it's being torn apart and there's only so much you can do. You know, before you completely surrender. You know, because you it's like, that's it. You know I can't do it anymore.
Speaker 5:So there's got to be options that are out there. I just don't know of any, but I think your husband seriously needs to. I don't know if it's through lawyers, but needs to step up and do his part.
Speaker 2:He won't.
Speaker 5:What.
Speaker 2:He won't not be with talking and not with her, because the specifically for narcissistic ones, they establish a pattern. They will not, they will not bend their way for nothing and they, they have assigned you a role and a responsibility and that's never going to change. So, it's not through that, but definitely through lawyers.
Speaker 3:yes, and I don't know how I'm going to do that.
Speaker 2:What do you mean?
Speaker 1:I feel like we're going to go far away from that point. Yeah, to be honest with you, you have to be sorry. No, no, I just think it's getting. We're getting away from like like I don't know if anyone is here. Can you give me legal advice or anything like that, right? I have no clue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what I mean. And I and I feel like, like, if I look at that timer, it's been an hour and 47 minutes, and it's an hour and 47 minutes of, basically, can you put yourself first? That's really what we're talking about, and it's not talking about giving up your daughter or anything else, it's just, really, can you look at yourself the way you take care of other people? To me it's very simple, like, can you do that or not? You know what I mean and you know how Leo was saying about like stepping outside.
Speaker 1:Really, I think like, step outside and think of yourself the way you talk about your, your mom. You know what I mean. And then when you wake up in the morning and you got to go into your daughter's room or do whatever before you do that, like, let me go check on Anna real quick and then see what she needs first. But what do you need today? Do you need anything today? Because, because I feel like and then even in doing that, I already feel like you'll find a way to get around that because then Anna, you'll ask Anna and Anna, but I want you to go check on your daughter. You know what?
Speaker 1:I mean Like I feel that, but I do think like, okay, at least start practicing At least the checking in on yourself and then maybe start again, start very minutely from that, because I feel like all the other stuff talking about your daughters and everything else is really to get away from that. You know what I mean, and then eventually there is time to do all of that. You know what I mean. That's not. That's not. I don't think that's why you came here, or I don't think that's why you come to me or anything else. I think you're looking for that. You know what I mean. And also, I think like to look at that part of yourself like, yeah, you've done a lot, man, you worked very hard and you broke yourself. You know for all these other people, and allow yourself to be like, okay, I did that and I carried that cross for a long time. You know what I mean. But then also be the Simon for yourself, like I'm going to help that you carry that for a little bit. What do you need? Okay, I'll work your face, but you know what I mean. Like, just those little things. Can you start off with those little things for yourself? I wonder to me.
Speaker 1:I think it will be as easy as when we're talking about. It seems so easy, but I have a feeling it's going to be challenging and I don't want to put that out there and put that in your head that it's going to be challenging. So I actually take that back, but can you do it, going to and not to do it to like, do it like I said, f you to your husband, like I'm going to take, I'm taking care of me. No, it's really because I want to take care of, I really want to take care of Anna. I want to take care of her, I want to nurture her because she needs my attention. You know more so than my daughters, because you tell me about your daughters all the time. They're only calling you when they need something. That's it. They call you when they need something and the other one at home that, like you know, cause it rockets or whatever. But then you have this other one that's crying out for you. That's why you're here. You know what I mean. And yeah, it's time to be okay.
Speaker 1:What do you need?
Speaker 2:That one grandmother that you were talking about earlier. You said she was the glue of the family, that she died when you were six. What kind of temperament did she have? Was she the boss of the house?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, she was definitely in charge. I mean, I was only six, but everybody did what she said she was she had raised four boys. She wanted a girl. She made it but one uncle and girl. She dressed them up.
Speaker 2:So your father was her son, nope.
Speaker 3:My father was her son, but he was the baby.
Speaker 2:Right. So he didn't have a daughter, so I understand that. So why have all the people around you you're choosing to emulate your mother and your father, their mode of operandi, instead of your grandmother.
Speaker 3:I guess because she was we really. She loved me. You could feel it and she had good things to say about me. She told me I had the gift and stuff like this and she also had it. People used to come to her for healing and things and when she was teaching the Italian we'd go out every Sunday. It was family, so it was always all together and I was really good at it. And then my mom came down the stairs and said that she had died. She passed it. Something just flew right out of me because I couldn't remember a single word of Italian.
Speaker 3:I just remember running outside and then when I went to when I went in their house, because it was at that time you had the person laid out in the house. I had no idea, so I was just, you know, walking in the house like I normally did, and instead of the couch, it was her in the house. It was really traumatic.
Speaker 2:So the thing is that the whole time you've been talking is maybe just being a couple minutes where you spoke with passion and it only came up to talk about the problems with your daughters, Like you know, like the shower issues and that kind of thing. But the whole time you've had this monotone right, Just right there, and I've been trying to trigger you and you've been like this oh yeah, Well, that's. If you want healing, you gotta. You know, we're trying to do healing here to you know, to combine a lot of things in one point, so there's only a certain way to do it. So From that you're in angles?
Speaker 1:Yeah, from any angles.
Speaker 2:And my, you know, the guy's the most best. So, whatever I've been telling you, it's exactly what you need it. You shift it majorly, from which I felt it from behind, which means that you let go of like a core issue, which is fantastic. And then you did the three other shifts from the front, which means it's your emotional perception of things, which helps too, because that means that you're going to see things differently. You may not necessarily be aware, but it will help you with what I told you to do. So you need to do those. But the third thing that you're going to do, I want you to because you're more like your grandmother. The reason why it devastated was the only person that you identify with, because you were very much like her, but you abandoned her. Where is she in you? I don't see her. She's standing right there. She's very much close to you, but you're nothing like her. Why aren't you choosing to be like her?
Speaker 3:Because you are, I guess, I didn't remember her?
Speaker 2:Sure you do, you just said it. Yeah, you know who she is. I think if you were to do the things that she did with you, with yourself, it will bring her energy back into you and you will start becoming her, because that's who you're supposed to be. This version of you, this is not you. This is the very submissive, and I can only take so much of it Meaning that I'm sorry, but it's not your true self.
Speaker 5:You're being who everyone else wants you to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you need to snap out of it. One way to snap out of it is to start seeing yourself more like your grandmother. She was a fantastic moment. She didn't take any shit from anybody.
Speaker 3:I'd do it over the.
Speaker 2:Okay, there's your answer. She would have gotten the house all in order, everybody to behave and everybody just eating from her hands, not because she's being submissive and subservient and self-sacrificing, because she's done them what to do. You've forgotten that.
Speaker 5:Going back to the example I was saying before to do the right thing without the drama. And that's what it sounds like how your grandmother was. She did everything that needed to be done without the drama.
Speaker 2:She loved you unconditionally. She didn't see that say the things and did the things for people because she was looking to get anything out of it, or because she was looking to make them happy, or because she just did things and loved them unconditionally. Her love was not dependent on who she was or how they reacted or whether or not they were upset about a thing, and it's a tough thing to learn after so many years that you've done it. It is a challenge to push yourself out of it. But my suggestion to you is to think what will my grandmother do in this situation? What would she say? How would she hand handle this? What would she have done? And then start doing it. She'll help you. Call on her. I apologize if you're next to you. Please give me the strength, give me the words, give me whatever and she'll do it.
Speaker 5:Think of the old-fashioned Italians, your grandmother. She'll say something to the family. So what does everybody want to have for a thank you to give you? You want a turkey. You're having lasagna? Okay, lasagna it is. It's what I'm making, this is what you're going to eat, and it wasn't vicious. It wasn't like that. I'm making lasagna.
Speaker 2:You don't like it, you like it. You eat it anyway. To that, you're going to like it. You don't like it too bad, you're going to eat it anyway, there's like a little humor in it too.
Speaker 5:Where not to take life so damn serious. I'll just make something up like your 32-year-old like well, mom, we don't have anything in the fridge, go to the store and buy it, too bad. Well then, you're not going to have dinner tonight. What is she going to do? Throw tantrum. I mean she could Let her, let her.
Speaker 3:Yes, I do.
Speaker 5:It's not your responsibility to fix everything. But be that grandmother that you love so much and you admire so much, that loved everybody so much, because they're all.
Speaker 5:You know they've got to be cruel to be kind, or that tough love thing. You know we're not being cruel if you say, if you don't clean up your room, you're not going to, you've got to go to bed early. It's not being cruel, it's teaching discipline. So they don't get away with it every time. Otherwise because I mean, this is so Italian it's either the mom or the dad that every kid was afraid of in every family. Oh, don't let me tell dad. And also the kids got scared because they knew when dad came home and he knew Well, you're tired of tiptoeing around everyone's eggshells, you know.
Speaker 2:Is that your phone blowing off?
Speaker 5:And it's okay, because you're busy right now and it's all about you right, that's it.
Speaker 3:I removed my watch. I removed everything.
Speaker 5:Hey.
Speaker 2:Mom I'll come you I wouldn't even keep it where you hear the buzzing.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:I'm saying for yourself like, because that's a constant reminder it's taking your attention to, or maybe you're deaf to it.
Speaker 3:When I get to do something, because I don't get to do something. You're fully immersed. Yeah, I really like it Okay.
Speaker 2:I'm sure it doesn't.
Speaker 5:Here's a little bit of homework, sort of speak. Think of write down some things you love to do or you always wanted to do that you never did Okay, and say it's painting. I'm just going to make something up here. Well make it a point to go to an art store and maybe the first day you're just going to walk around and you're going to get inspired with the brushes and the paints and go on the internet. Look at what people paint. All of that shows Bob, is it Bob? Bob Ross.
Speaker 5:Bob Ross. You know he makes everything look simple and just get the basic things and again, this is just an example of this is what you want to do and learn to spend, say, just starting out, an hour every day doing something you enjoy doing. Then a week or two weeks, a month later, you do an hour and a half and then at some point after that you pick the other thing on digital down that you wanted to do. And again I'm going to make something up like write music. Okay, so now you do some artwork and now you're going to do some music. Little by little, you're going to give yourself a reason to get up in the morning to do something that you love. You have something that's going to bring out the joy and the passion. And as time goes by, you're going to say this is what I want to experience every damn day of my life. And now I'm ready to do what I need to do, to let go of everything that no longer serves me and to move forward into things that make me happy and joy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that would be nice, Because.
Speaker 5:I don't think anyone should just like go from here to here overnight. You have to get a taste of it in your mind and in your heart and in your soul and then, as it starts to like have like this fire inside you, like fire passion, you know something good, not bad, oh my God. Yeah, this I'm feeding my soul right now. And then you're going to find it easier to just tell people what you need to tell them Because it's for their own good, not because you're saying it because you're angry, like you know what. I'm not doing this for you. You're not saying it that way. You say you know, I'm sorry, honey, you need to do this, I'm busy with something else. But, ma, sorry, you can handle your, your wrong woman now. And I keep.
Speaker 5:I'm sorry if I keep using her as an example, because I don't have much of a knowledge of everyone else in the family other than the one who depends on you, because, the truth is, you enable them so much that they don't even have to do anything anymore.
Speaker 5:It's it's you're actually hurting them more by doing that, then giving them a little bit more of a tough love, because you're not giving them any skills or any reason to want to be better. They have everything they need, so why would they want to grow and do something else? They just rather stay stagnant and stay in the same place. So maybe maybe we can do a different practice instead of being nice to yourself.
Speaker 1:You know Kobe Bryant, but I didn't think he would say to himself Black Mamba, when he would play. You know he would play and they would say, would take this different like persona. You know the Black Mamba. Maybe you could put the mask on of your grandma you know what I mean and sit there, because it was the only time I actually saw it. So why don't you sit there and feel like that, like let normal take over your body, let that feeling go back once it feels like it'd be normal, let that take over and then act? You know it's like mass work.
Speaker 1:When you put on the mask of the archetype like I'm going to be the warrior. You put it on and what's it feel like to be the warrior For me? It's very hard to be the warrior because it feels weird for me. You know what I mean. But when I try to go into that archetype, what's it feel like to be aggressive and to be competitive and to be and let myself play with that energy. Well, let yourself play with that energy of being your grandma. Maybe, instead of waking up in the morning and asking what is the enemy today, maybe do it in the form of Nona. Tell Nona what's enemy today.
Speaker 2:Okay, we make lasagna. Everybody wants fried chicken. We're having lasagna today. I'm going to be serious.
Speaker 1:I know it's a fun game, but I'm being serious. Something I learned from doing like you know, like parts work and you start talking to all these different parts of yourselves, I realized like the real things, it's real energies, and now it made me feel actually closer to the teachings of my Dallas teacher when they talk about these different deities within you and everything else. So if you're able to get that feeling which I know you can, because I saw that so I want to start talking about your grandma. I saw it. Your posture changed, everything changed, so that's telling me you can do it. So just sit there and look, okay, and I know you're going to get enjoyment because you let the feeling of being connected to your grandma so, do that and then start from there.
Speaker 1:So how does your grandma react to your kid?
Speaker 2:I don't know, we'll see. What would she say about your life?
Speaker 5:Do you believe loved ones are still with us?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 5:Then you know what Ask her to come to you and to give you the strength, the courage and to help you feel her inside you, to give you that strength and the wisdom and knowledge how to react and how to move on with your life.
Speaker 2:You know the things that she told you. She is right next to you, she's always been, but she's only going to let you know and bring that strength in when you chose to, because she's not one to enable anybody. So you have to make the choice and that's when she's going to step in. She's that kind of a woman, but the things that she told you is because they're true and they are actually tools that you can use now to help yourself. You just have to remember.
Speaker 2:I understand that you shut down a lot of this thought because you were young, because you have all those memories there.
Speaker 2:They're all there. But it was too painful to have to let go of the one person that was so similar to you that you felt so close and connected to that, saw you for who you really were, and then you had to choose to be this other person after that, very shortly after Right. So you have to make that choice. Now there's another thing that they're saying to do and it's up to you, and I'm not so sure if we're going to post this section because there's so much private stuff in it. I don't know, but there's a lot of good stuff. We'll figure it out later whether or not, because I don't want to put your stuff out there for everybody to hear. There's a lot of good stuff that came through, but you know I want to be cautious on it. But I would like to see which daughter is texting you and what they're texting you about, because there are things that we can tell you about that, how to handle it. Would you mind sharing with us getting your phone.
Speaker 5:Does that take the wrong phone call?
Speaker 2:I don't know, it could have been both. It's actually used to go once right. I think it was a little bit of both.
Speaker 3:It's the daughter with special needs asking me to come back, please. I think that's all. I'm going to say, yeah, it was just her asking me to come back.
Speaker 2:Okay. So with her in particular, she is more capable and smarter than what she's showing, you know, than what she's doing. You have to see her as capable and it's not as much as doing something different with her. As much as you change in your tone when you're embodying your grandmother, like I used to be I used to be very much that way, how you are, I've seen the world from that point of view being raised, you know, self-sacrificing and all this and she was taking care of everybody and that kind of thing. But— Take that.
Speaker 1:Look at the spike on the tip of the tongue. Oh, it's your daughter.
Speaker 3:I should call her that's warm, that's warm, that's warm. How do I— I get it? I just said it.
Speaker 1:Is that it? Yeah, okay, I mean it's not silent, it's not silent.
Speaker 2:And the thing is that—no, no, no, we're going—we'll go—we'll go to the room. No, no, you're not sorry, no, you're not, you don't worry about that. So that the moment that you start seeing the world from this different place, the moment that you start actually looking at it from that point of view meaning that you really are no longer addressing yourself through the identity of what you see yourself you start noticing that people change too. So with her specifically, like your tone of voice changes because you start talking differently. Now your tone is a very submissive tone. It's a very monotone. When you're talking to them, even if you get angry, they're still hearing that underline, because when we believe we are something, we speak it through our words. Whether we say who we are or not, we're still speaking it and everybody around us hears it, feels it, understands it, perceives it. We're all very intuitive. It's not that somebody has it more than others, are they more aware of it or not, but we are intuitive Energetically. We feel the energy of what the person feels of themselves before you even say their first words. So it doesn't matter what you do and what you say, because if what you believe of yourself is something very different, they're not going to care. They're going to do whatever they want. So you have to start changing.
Speaker 2:Your grandmother knew that and she knew that If she believes something about herself, then everybody did exactly what she said. You want everybody to do exactly what you say. You need to change the way you feel about yourself so you cannot hold on to the truth of I've always taken care of everybody. I've always done it this way. I was raised this way and my mother showed me that my father was the one to make the decision. Hell, no, no. Choose your truth. So what I told you earlier to do is to help you understand that there is a different truth, and for you to find whatever truth it is that you want, you get to pick a choose. It's like you got a whole house that you get to decorate, with nobody opinion around, and you can do whatever you want. So just envision that too. If it's a house, if it's a garden and if it's a, whatever it is that you want, you have all the pains, you have all the anything at your fingertip and you get to pick and choose who you are, and you decorate the house based on who you are, and each time that you find the piece that you adore by yourself, that you enjoy, that you actually want to be that person.
Speaker 2:Even if it's like trying clothes for once, it doesn't mean that you're going to like it. So let's say you know, you got this wonderful, beautiful pink shirt on right. It's not everybody's color, but you chose pink, which is great. Well, tomorrow you're going to wear yellow. I never wore yellow, but maybe I'm wearing yellow. I'm going to see how I feel on it. If I like it, I like it. No, it will become my color. If I don't, I don't. But that's how you're going to start doing. That process needs to be just like that. It's not super complicated, it's just doing it, and it takes, it requires a little bit of thinking, thoughts behind it, you know and again, use your grandmother as an example- it would make it easier for me because I wouldn't feel so alone, right.
Speaker 2:And you remember and she's a good role model better than all the other people you're mentioning you know. So I'm not trying to refuse her as a role model.
Speaker 5:But that's what she said to me. As far as I'm concerned, it was like really, really important, because right now you do feel all alone. This is like a struggle you have to go through and no one's giving you help. Knowing that you have your grandmother on your side, who's guiding you and assisting you in any way she can, gives you the strength and the courage to move forward, to do what you need to do. I have a story.
Speaker 5:This is a true story. I used to work in an office environment and I had a. My boss was. He was like a little bit of an arrogant in this I'll be and obviously I'm an employee, so you know you do what you have to do and you know I was. But it got to a point where, of the 10 or so people that were on my team, he used me as the guinea pig. He picked on me all the time.
Speaker 5:So at the time I said I'm tired of IT, I don't want to do this shit anymore. And I looked into buying a franchise, going to business for myself and it got to. It was going to take a couple of months. It was a long process but eventually we found a location and I signed the lease and we were just weeks away of me actually, you know, it was a grand opening. I was going to open up my shop and everything. And then I had the courage. When he started ripping into me, I just I gave him so many colorful words, I just stood in my ground and he went like this after after that for the next three weeks or so, because I knew I was going to give my two weeks notice. That's why I blew up like that.
Speaker 5:He was so nice to me because he saw up hard at me like I wasn't going to take his shit anymore, and it changed him completely as attitude toward me. Now, as an older guy, I realized he probably has some issues that he needed someone to pick on and to make himself feel better about himself. And usually someone like that if you pick on this person, all of a sudden they, they fight to hit back or they, you know, whatever, you look for someone else and you pick. Now you're going to pick someone else. I knew someone else was going to take the, the be the guinea pig for him, so he can just be miserable and let all that as prostrations out on them.
Speaker 5:Let that be some kind of incentive for you that if your husband either gives you some kind of attitude or they say, you know, honey, I'm sorry, I think the Betty white, like I shut up, you know, like, just like you know, with a sense of humor, like don't you ever get tired, jesus Christ, I shut up and just walk away, he's going to like, wow, I can't, she's not taking it anymore, it's going to. He's going to treat you a little differently because you, you, you reach your limit as how much shit you're willing to deal with, and that's it, he'll stop. He might just stop very well you know hurting you or doing something to you, because he knows it doesn't. You're not reacting anyway. The same way, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've seen that that shit.
Speaker 5:He's seeing my shit, but if it helps, think of Betty white, because she had a sense for humor about everything you know, and sometimes that's that we lose, that we lose that sense of humor.
Speaker 5:You know, if you could hold onto it, be saw little sarcastic or whatever. Whatever works for you, not only do you get the message across to him, you actually walk away with smiling and laughing. It was like I gave it back to him. That's so be. I know that we're not. You said you're not going to put this out there, so oh, I really curse, like there's no don't worry about it. You're not doing anything bad.
Speaker 2:I very beginning the first two minutes I use the curse word. In there I need to curve my enthusiasm for my curse word.
Speaker 5:Sometimes and I say this because I see this about myself too, and then I said it to Simone many times I missed the old Leo where, like I didn't take anything from anybody and I used to be very sarcastic and say funny things and whatever, because you reach a point where you get tired, but at that point when I did that, people had a little bit more respect for me. Now, as I'm getting older, I feel, like you know, more vulnerable, I guess, because I I kind of know, I kind of see what you're going through and what kept me going all those years is like I just didn't care what people thought, but I had that inner confidence and I kind of lost it and I'm starting to get it back again. And I think that's what you need. You need to hold on to that confidence and hold on to that sense of humor and real life.
Speaker 5:Life is a big journey. There's going to be ups and downs. Okay, I went through my downtime and I was lessened more than I wanted it to, but now it's going to go back up again and I'm not going to look at life. I don't look at everything so serious. Yeah, there's some serious decisions to make. That's all going to be good. It's all going to be good. You need to see that it's all going to be good and not look at it as like big doomsday ahead of me and you know and just walk around like this all the time because it doesn't have to be that way, and if you were to do something that you enjoy more, it'll bring more joy into your heart, you know.
Speaker 5:And then everything all seems so heavy and when you're in that place more than the other the bad place you are going to start making the right decisions sooner and quicker, with less regret or less hesitation, because you know deep down that's the right thing to do. I don't know why it took me so long to figure it out, but that is the right thing to do.
Speaker 3:Yes, I do that myself.
Speaker 5:And it's normal, it's all part of your journey. But what's also part of your journey is to see that, to make peace and to heal, to let go of the past, the old, the pain, even, because sometimes the root cause of what you're going through is from when you were a child. And if you can see all that and you take care of that, then everything else from that point forward just kind of fills those away. Because now you know what made you the person you are today is because something that happened back then and it's not always one thing, it could be many things, but as you start realizing them and coming to terms with it and it's in your conscious mind, you can make peace with it, let it go.
Speaker 5:And then you say and I had to do this myself like, well, what would be the worst case scenario if I got divorced? So what would be the worst case scenario if I moved someplace else? What would be the worst case scenario? Well, the best case scenario is I start a new life, I take care of me, I set my own rules and I set my own boundaries, and if someone crosses those boundary lines that I drew, then I want no part of them. I've been there, done that. I don't need that person, that type of person, in my life anymore, and that's it. And when you vibrate from a place of joy and love and happiness, then you're going to smile more often. And as you smile more often, people that are good people see that smile on you. It's like, oh, she must be a nice person, and now you're attracting all good people into your life.
Speaker 5:Email and mail, but they're not going to be attracted to you if your head is always down. They're just going to look past you and look at the person behind you that's smiling, because that's the person that's resonating with them. So you need to get rid of all this trash whatever you want to call it, baggage, luggage and lift up your soul. And then what Paolo was talking about before people like Jesus also know someone has to do is touch their clothing, and the energy that comes from Him heals them.
Speaker 5:Well, when you're a happy person, a loving person, a good heart, a big heart, you're going to heal people around you too, and you're going to be a light for those people.
Speaker 1:I wonder about that. Actually, Sorry if I'm going to start taking a minute because I don't know how much I believe that it's about being a happy person and a gentle person. I think it's about being in touch with your truth, what that's?
Speaker 5:what makes you happy.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I wonder about that. I don't know. I don't know of happiness and sadness. I don't have anything to do with it.
Speaker 5:Happiness to love.
Speaker 1:I wonder about that, like Padre Pio. When you hear about Padre Pio it doesn't sound like the happy guy. In fact it sounds like he had depression problems and it was kind of mean. When I was in Italy people would tell me I would talk about Padre Pio. I was in France. A lot of people in France seemed to be very atheist so they would always kind of make fun of me because I was there. I love Saint Francis, I like all these things.
Speaker 1:I love to explore them. I guess they look at me like I'm this old school Catholic guy. And I don't think I am. I just have a love of whatever that's presentable. But when a few of the people talked, when I spoke about Padre Pio, they said he was mean, he would slap people. And when I read about these stories that they were talking about because he's not worried about you being happy, he's worried about you knowing truth.
Speaker 1:And I'll be honest with you and I'm not everything that we're talking about here. I'm not saying it with in hopes that like, oh, I'm going to see you in like one year and you're living this happy life and you're going to be like I went to Italy and like I'll be honest with you. I don't care about that, I don't care. What I care about is that you, you, you bloomed. You know what I mean and I don't know what that bloomed looks like, but that's what I care about. And obviously I want her to be happy, but I but. But I just wanted to be clear that. But that's not. My goal is for you to be happy, like when, when we talk and we're working together and everything else. I'm not working on you and doing needle in and all this stuff, that you walk away feeling happy. The happiness is just is is a byproduct of what's happening. I'm just trying to get things moving. You know what I mean. The happiness usually becomes because of that.
Speaker 1:But that's not the goal.
Speaker 2:It isn't no, but you will experience more than happiness is contentment and peace. There's a minute peace that you achieve when you are acting more from your authentic self, that a lot of this stuff would not be bothering you. You would have answers to the things, you would not be having doubts. Or, if they are, if you do have doubts, you usually get to the answer a lot faster. You're able to make decision. You're able to, you know, not really look back and not think about all the things that could go wrong or all the things that you know. Even if you do it just a much easier transition, it just goes a lot faster. So I find that that I'd rather look at it more. There's a contentment and an inner peace when you are more in that you know in that place.
Speaker 5:So that's what I meant when I said happy. You can't be happy and happy luggage at the same time. It's just once. There's two opposing types of energy. Happy is the end product of you healing and letting go, coming to groups acceptance, full acceptance of what is, by not letting it control or rule your life.
Speaker 3:I think that that's the first thing I need to do to let go of all that stuff.
Speaker 5:I mean, I think the first good, the first place to start, would be realizing or letting go what is not your responsibility. A 32 year old daughter is not your responsibility. She's a grown adult. That doesn't mean you kick her out the door, but you start laying down the groundwork for you have to step up, you know, you have to step up to the plate, honey.
Speaker 5:I'm sorry. This is that simple. I can't take care of you and everybody for the rest of my life. I'm getting tired. I'm getting old and I'm getting tired. Was it your mother that passed away? Yes, your grandmother was already dead by my age. I don't know. I'm not saying you want the pity story. We're like oh, I may only live for another two years. You're saying you know, I'm 60. I just can't do it anymore. You're a grown woman. I would love for you to take care of me someday when I get older. Not that you want to, but at least you know what I'm trying to say. It's like you matured and became responsible to a point where it would be nice for my own daughter to take care of me for once, after everything I did for you. But to go on thinking that this can go on indefinitely, I can't.
Speaker 1:You know you talk about like when we talk and you like Bob and Eve talking about your daughters and everything else, because I know again, you've been doing that caretaker role for so long. I'm really happy about that, like the grandma role, because then you can use that grandma and should that caretaker in you, and now your grandma to ask that Anna to look okay, I'm going to take care of you, you can take the rest, because I'm going to take care of things now. You know what I mean. So it's not like you're trying to get rid of this Anna, the caretaker that you've identified for so long. It's just that you have some rest. You know what I mean? Yes, and that, and then this other part of you can step up, make a sign and bring it here for everybody.
Speaker 5:Good friend, bottom line is you're not a cyborg.
Speaker 3:You can't keep the sub forever, that's right, I don't know what to do with it.
Speaker 2:You haven't wanted to do it since you were born, and that's a normal remedy. Don't beat yourself up. I think we've been hammering on you for like two and a half hours, I don't want to be.
Speaker 2:You know, I think that's I wanted to kind of put a bit of a break, even an hour ago, and we kept going. So there's only so much a person can absorb, you know. And then I don't want you to lose the most important point, so that, although you'll have the recording and you can listen to it whenever yeah Well, I need your email, so I'll send it to your email. We'll come as a Dropbox file, okay, okay.
Speaker 3:I don't know what that is, but okay.
Speaker 2:Well, when you see it, it'll say Dropbox, and I think it's at least I think that's what it shows. But when you open it and you should be able to hear it so you can get the main points- yes, I know that's a piece of quite.
Speaker 3:I appreciate it very much. Same, same Pleasure to tell.
Speaker 5:You got this.
Speaker 2:You can get there.
Speaker 3:Yes, I feel. I feel I feel more empowered. Like I said, I don't want to be a victim and I'm tired of the way things have been. So what you said shift into another gear open another chapter.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and you know, the interesting thing too is someone like your husband who was in the hospital. When he no longer has that control over you, one, two things are going to happen. One, he'll stop, and two, because they need that, they'll find someone else to do that too, because that's what makes them feel good about themselves, that's what makes them feel better or smarter or better than anybody else, and when they, that effect with you is no longer there and it doesn't give them that desired effect, he goes somewhere else. He'll just stop. He'll stop bothering them, and I'm saying that because I went through that story. I told you about man. All I did was stand up to him and he just backed down and he was so nice to me and I never saw that coming and I got mad at myself because I said Jesus.
Speaker 5:If I knew that's how he would have reacted, I would have done that a year ago instead of taking it. He was my boss, so the natural thing is like okay, okay. But for everybody in my team to say, wow, leo, I don't know what it is, but he does not like you. So it wasn't just me, everyone noticed. But it wasn't until I stood up to him. He backed down Because they don't want that challenge. They just want someone to pick on so they can feel better about themselves.
Speaker 2:But the difference in you because you knew you were leaving, you didn't care.
Speaker 5:That's where I got the strength.
Speaker 2:It's not as much of the strength as the fact that it changed Even how you converge your ton of voice. You had a different feel about yourself and it translates into everything that you say. It's a perception that translates. It doesn't have to be specific words that you're saying, it's even the energy behind it, the energy behind your words. It translates to this moment. I don't give a shit and I'm going to say whatever. And they know that If you had said something like that a year prior, you know, without having that thought and that power behind it, it would have not had the same effect, because you were in the same place. And that's what I was saying earlier. You need to change this up here before you start doing, not before, but even while you're doing. Change your thoughts and you will see people changing around you in the way they respond to you. If they're still responding with the old pattern, it's because you haven't done enough of that change. I'm looking at everybody. How's everybody doing? Let's talk about something else. Next weather we're having.
Speaker 2:Next weather we're having. I guess it was the show going back to the beginning.
Speaker 5:It's hard to see sometimes and you know what. There might be two, three years down the road. You're going to go look back and go, wow, why didn't I do that sooner, when everything, when the dust storm settles and you can see clearly like, wow, why did I wait so long to do what I needed to do? Now look where I am and I'm so much in a better place. I wish I had the courage or the strength or whatever it was to do this years earlier.
Speaker 3:It happens when it's supposed to happen. Yeah, I just don't want to mess it up.
Speaker 2:And I think you also get past that, though you get to a point where then you start seeing, or at least you're supposed to. If you haven't, I think you got an issue there, for me.
Speaker 5:Thank you For you.
Speaker 2:But you get to one where you appreciate the path.
Speaker 5:you know the path of what it was and you know If you look at say you're in heaven right now and you're looking back at your entire life you're not going to judge it as bad or good. You're going to see that every single thing that happened made you who you are now, because the whole purpose, at least in my opinion, that we're all down here is to go through a journey of experiences and decision making and the truth is you can choose this decision that will take you in this direction and say, okay, it led to a big marriage.
Speaker 5:Wow, I wish I never have done that. I should have went this way. I should have had a career and then maybe I would have met someone else, but maybe that someone else would have done the same thing. So if you made that decision without seeing this you was. I wish I would have met Mary, this guy, to begin with, and then I never would have experienced this, isn't that?
Speaker 1:kind of the talk now, like everyone's talking about different realities, is like some in some other universe. They did make that decision. You know what I mean. That's what I keep up here, like it's all over the place now All the decisions were made already, right?
Speaker 5:So the bottom line is everything we make, every decision we make, we can either judge it as bad or good. It's going to take it just down this road, and down this road there's going to be bad and good. Sometimes it's really good, sometimes it's really bad. It's really bad, oh, I should have done something else. We we corrected and then we go down another road. Oh, I wish I didn't make that decision, because look where I am now or look where I am now, or look where I am now. Life. We don't know, where we're going.
Speaker 5:But because of the experiences we make, we we learn, like I learned for myself, that the more acceptance I have for everything, the less I'm burdened by it. Because it's just an experience, because, like I said when I started this, what I was saying the start of this conversation is that if you're up in heaven and you're looking back and you're doing your job, you really doesn't none of it matters, because you're up here now. This was something that you needed to come down and play this game of life. You just do it. The condition is that you have total amnesia when you come down here. You don't know. You remember that you came up from here. So every decision that you make, every experience that you experience, feels real and it hurts, sometimes it's good, Sometimes it's bad, and we think that this is what life is all about. Man, it sucks big time, but it's just a game that we had to play. Now, when we go back here like, oh wow what a hell of a ride that was.
Speaker 5:I didn't experience, I didn't expect that. Oh, guess what? You're going to go back and we're going to reincarnate you again, like oh shit, and then another for 50, 80 years of all kinds of other experience. Again you come down here with amnesia, you don't know what the hell's going on, like why the fuck is this happening? Or why is this good? And then you go back here and you go, oh man, that was another great experience. When can I go back again?
Speaker 5:But while we're down here, we don't look forward to coming back because the pain is too real. But it's not real in a sense, because whatever happens, you're still a beautiful soul deep down inside. You're just. We all are convinced, or maybe even brainwashed, that that's what life is. And some people will say, wow, this really sucks. I didn't sign up for it, but it's really not that bad. Some people have it worse than others. There's, I mean, what's going on in Israel and Gaza? There were people I think there was an old woman that was a Holocaust survivor and here she is. She got captured by Hamas and it's like so in Hamas, like how can this possibly happen two times in a row for the same one lifetime. Think about that and how we're horrific, like you would think in our 80s or whatever like it's all behind her.
Speaker 1:I mean when you say that I think about and I think I've said this before something that Nazul said to me when I was asking one time. There's some several things I would like to say on that, but I'll show you that I was asking one time about the story of Job that I find very interesting, right Like this guy that keeps on suffering, and suffering the most horrible things, like his death of his family. You know he's got all these skin lesions and he keeps having like this immense faith in God.
Speaker 1:And then I was thinking like I don't know if I have that in me, like just the lesions enough to be like all right, I'm done. You know what I mean. Like I'm not the toughest of people. And Nazul said why are you comparing yourself to Job? You're not Job. You didn't come here to have a Job experience. And he said you're having the experience that you're having. And then I said but what about that little boy or something in Africa that's going to bed hungry every night? And he said that's their experience. That's not your experience. And you may look at it as like you're having a better experience than that kid because you have something to eat In fact, I may have too much to eat but the difference is this child is going to have different awarenesses and different things that happen to him that I will not experience, and we can judge them as good or bad. It's us that's judging it.
Speaker 1:So then I said so by you saying that, saying, if I ever come across this kid, do I not give him something to eat, because then I'm getting in the way of his karma or whatever? And the reply was no, because how is God ever going to get to know God? And because didn't Christ say, when you saw me hungry, did you not give me food and clothing and whatever, that whole saying. So, going from that, I was thinking OK, so we're all just here having the experience that we're having right, you're having this experience as you, you're having the experience as Simone.
Speaker 1:So the other night we were in the car and Issa was asking me about my grandfather that when he was in World War II, because he was in a camp, he was in a Nazi camp and then from the Nazi camp he got taken by the Russians and ended up a prisoner in Russia and he, you know, he told me a bunch of stories of things that happened to him and his friends and stuff. And Issa said Daddy, just think If they shot Nona, his Nona like great-grandfather he goes Nona would have never been born, which means you would never been born, which means I would have never been born, which means Mommy probably would have married someone else, because everything would be different just because of one single thing. That didn't happen. All these things happened, right, all these this lineage kept going. And then, you know, they got me thinking about that, like, okay, yes, so now I am here and now what? And I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't really ever think about the way you were thinking about, like, oh, if I'm up in heaven, I'm looking at it Again. I don't know why I always identify with this honeysuckle. I'm always thinking about this honeysuckle out on my deck, and it was because I watch it all the time. When it's growing, and even in the winter, I cut it and then it comes back. It'll be spring, right, and then it comes back and it just has this intelligence. It just knows where to go and then it finds the deck. Or if it didn't find the deck, some of it finds that tree just nearby and it just makes its way to learn easily to go, and then it flowers and then it removes and then, when it's time, it go over tracks again.
Speaker 1:And I felt like, yeah, that's life, you know what I mean. It has its hard times when there's rainy, when there's a drought or whatever it is, and it can't help that. Maybe I'm going to combine and snap it, but it just it's just doing what it's doing, right, it's just always making its way. And I feel like that's all we're doing. We're just trying to make our way. And then how do you follow which way you're supposed to go? How does that? How does that honeysuckle know where to go? Go to the deck or whatever? To me it looks like it's not doing anything, but I saw this video of them going in like you know, firmest motion, yeah, and they're just going like this, they're spiraling around.
Speaker 5:And then they hit something and then they click onto it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they find it and we find things with resistance. So that resistance that you've been feeling and you've been commenting like, think about it since the COVID, right, so it's been a while, and then you've been talking about it. Talking about it, talking about it, just grab onto the deck and just go. You know what I mean. It doesn't have. I know it feels hard. I know, because there's things in my life where I feel and it's like, okay, it feels hard, but maybe that's the path, maybe the path is no longer like when we're younger and I'm like, okay, now we're going to go do this and now it's time to go do this. I'm talking to you by feeling, I'm talking to myself really, but maybe there is no path. The path is just, it's really just an inward path and that's all it is. You know what I mean. And to me I don't know. And then I don't know if I equate that path to a specific emotional feeling, like there's a sense of, like this inner peace, or there's a sense of happiness, or I look at things in more of truth, if it's true. I just want to know if it's true or not. You know I was talking with. I know I'm going on tangents.
Speaker 1:I was talking with a friend of mine. We were talking about someone else we knew that became a born again Christian and I was like you know what, like I may not agree with a lot of what they say man, he looks happy, like he really looks happy. And this guy went on to tell me how he went to this like Buddhist school and one of the people he went to school with became a born again. He fell in love with this girl, became a born again Christian and he checked the convince this guy saying, like all that Buddhist stuff is just devil stuff, listen that give yourself the Christ. And you know. And he was like I'm listening to the sky and I'm thinking like it's a bunch of bull, he goes. But this guy changed his life and he was happy and he was.
Speaker 1:So there's a part. What was like I still don't. I still don't agree with everything this evangelical person is saying, but I do agree with the one part. Is the surrender part. Is that surrendering? And if you surrender, what does that look like? I'm asking. I'm not trying to make a point, I'm asking for myself. You know what I mean. It's like what does that surrender look like? Because I feel it deep inside something is saying like enough man enough, I feel it To me, surrendering.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think there's different levels of it. If it's about I think you know, I'm going to connect it to that. How do you suck it that you see in the in the back Plants? The reasons why plants are healing is because they're amazingly saint in beings. Okay, the energy between the runs through them. They're extremely connected. They're not pretending to be something that they're not. They know who they are, but they don't care to know who they are.
Speaker 2:There is that surrender Like, yes, I'm a tree, I'm supposed to do this, I'm supposed to absorb sun and exchange carbon monoxide for oxygen and all that beautiful stuff and photosynthesis and everything. It's not about they're not doing acting as a tree because they are a tree, they're just being, and I think surrender is just like that, Just being, Not necessarily questioning something, and what they're being is whatever they feel happy about, and it's not just about their own. It's not even happen. It's like it's a state of being where I don't know have you ever gotten lost into watching the tree moving to the winds or, you know, watching the clouds go across the sky, and you get this feeling of I don't even know if there's a word for it. You're lost in it, but it takes you away from everything else, right?
Speaker 2:So trees and plants they live in that state pretty much all the time because they're not questioning who they are. They don't need an identity to be a tree, and the surrender that we are looking and striving to is exactly that. And for when I look at it, the healing and when we take people from you know, not having any confidence or very little bit to having confidence, to then not caring whether or not you have confidence, that's the same process. You get to that place where it's longer important to be, to know about self-worth, because you don't need it anymore. You have embodied it and you're just okay to just be. You don't need that to identify yourself, but in the process of getting there, if you're deficient of it, then that's where you need to go and you get to that point. So to me, surrenders is that it's just. I feel that I deal with my life pretty much that way. I don't ask questions because it's just nice to just be. You know, Can I ask you something?
Speaker 1:It's actually something I want to ask your guides just because they're not human in human form. Do they look at humans as that's the gift of being a human, because all these other beings they're already being? But I think the gift sometimes I feel, is that struggle in a way, that struggle of like feeling far away from what you are. And then, when you find it, it's such an E I don't know the word, but in elation, I don't know, elation is probably good. That thing of it's almost like God playing hide and seek. I mean it's like ah, I found you, ah, you were there the whole time. And sometimes I wonder is that the actual gift of being a human being? Is that's why it's so beautiful to be a human being, because we have that capability of going away from what we are. And then I mean, not in a sense you can never really go away from it, but you can what's it say?
Speaker 2:put a curtain in front of it, and then you get to play this game of trying to find it so to them, as you were talking, what they were saying, it may not be understood or accepted by people. And so I form more people.
Speaker 2:But whatever is that, pain is actually a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2:You don't necessarily experience the breath of emotions that we actually experience and feelings here in this world as they do, from themselves as being so, even feeling something like pain, touching a flame that is hot not touching but getting close to it, having all these sensations is the difference for them and they don't get it.
Speaker 2:So they, from that point of view, from them looking in and into us they're like wow, that's amazing, you get to feel all that. So, whether it's good or bad, they're not looking at it from how we are interpreting it, they're looking at it from. It's like playing a symphony and you've got the good notes and the bad notes, if you want to call it that way, or like the high notes and the low notes, or you may think that an instrument is not important in a symphony, but they all play their role right, and so to them. If you want the answers, then painful things are also just as beautiful. It's not just because after, because you can't have darkness without light or light without darkness, it's because you get to experience such an intense emotion or feeling with it that that's what it is to be human, is to experience all those things. It's why we come to do this. It's just all that.
Speaker 1:You E E says something really nice on the way over here. He loves talking about space and we'll talk about space and I'm being like I am ignorant on the subject of being honest. I said, you know, I wonder. I said why, when the sun is hitting the earth, it's daytime and you know there's light, but why is it dark in space if there's nothing to shade the sun? And he said, daddy, because it's all light. It just has nothing to bounce off of. So you can't see it.
Speaker 1:And I don't know if he's right or wrong, but but I kind of look at it like that. This is all just, it's just all bouncing and we get to experience it. I don't know, I find that very beautiful. I think so too, because we get to experience it and I don't even know how long we get to experience it. So sometimes I wonder about that. Like even here we're talking about you know, you change in your life. Sometimes I even wonder, like what if you didn't change anything and you kept going the way you were going? And I'm not saying to do that or anything, I'm just thinking, you know, I'm just talking out loud Could you still? Could you still find God in that? Whatever, you know I'm just using the word God, but I feel like you guys understand what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's the same as what you were saying before the struggles that help you to find God and to find out that God was there all along. So, in the same way, yes, the struggle is there, but even that understanding if you start seeing this as a blessing and that's one, actually one of the tools that I tell people and there is a client that I work with and this person is dealing with a chronic illness and I said you're not going to get over it until you see this as a blessing. But that's finding God in things you know. And even in the process of doing that, even if you will find a blessing and it will change your perception, it will change your thoughts and it will change, it just starts a cascading things. So I think all of it, you know, it's however you want to say it. It's all part of that, you know, and I think it's a beautiful way to look at it.
Speaker 2:You know, and again, there is an enormous amount of suffering and pain in the world and people have gone through horrendous things and that I don't condone and I can't understand it. You know why things happen the way they do to people in such horrific ways, and I can't see the beauty in that. I have a hard time seeing God in that, you know, or seeing like that as a blessing. So I don't have an answer to that, you know, and I think it just that's also part of being human that we have. We have to prompt the atrocity of being human, the atrocity that we do to one another and how the extent of that. I think of that darkness, that people can push themselves to.
Speaker 2:And I don't think that's necessarily God's plan, but it's probably the fact that, just like you throw a ball and it can go as far as it goes depending upon the weight, the gravity and all the kinds of you know all the scientific laws of physics and I think somebody can just push those boundaries to the extent, same as you can go all the way out here with you know the kindness that you can bestow on another. I do struggle with that a little bit sometimes, into applying what I believe into some things that are atrocious. Like, I think, a lot of women, I watch a lot of those shows that you know. Like I Survive is one of my favorite and all these you know detective shows. Are they books? I don't know if they're books, but it's a TV.
Speaker 2:You know the new episode of People that Survived Horrible Things that Happened to them and their stories and they tell their stories and a lot of it is just, you know, things being done to women and you know Leo always questions why you're watching those things. They're so depressing, but it's like to me it's another way to stick to the reality of things that there are people who are suffering really, really bad things and that I can't disconnect too much myself, no matter how much my belief are, and even from my guides, that there is also the reality that some people are experiencing this kind of things and to them that's really true and it's atrocious. You know, I don't know. That's at least how I'm handling it right now.
Speaker 1:No, I agree with you, but I don't know if I have the feeling like, well, it just is what it is, because it's all God. I don't think that. I think what I feel, that I can see the God in it is what you just said. I am seeing the suffering of someone else and there's people out there trying to relieve that suffering. There's people out there trying to help me, you know, like those poor people working their asses off in the Congo. You know, or you know whatever's going on in the world, like even though like whatever in Israel and Gaza.
Speaker 1:The thing that's tough with me is the news is that I feel helpless to do anything about it. I feel the most I can do is my prayers, and then people are like well, what are your prayers done with? I don't know. I feel like if I put I think who is it, hafez or Maestro I got one of these griefs says that I know, if you put, if I put a prayer of love out in the world somewhere, somewhere, something good will happen, and that's kind of how I feel about it, because I don't know what else can I do. You know, but I also know that within Israel, within Gaza and within Ukraine, wherever there's war going on or something, there's somebody helping somebody else. You know what I mean. There's somebody like look how many stories out of you know World War II of like Germans helping out Jews in Haiden. They're risking their lives, hiding their people, you know. So there is that too and I feel I don't know. I just I don't understand. I just feel hopeful for humanity. I just feel like there's enough good people out there that we will always be okay.
Speaker 1:And I mean, and one of those those is my during COVID. Like during COVID I thought I was a market and like people just bend more than me money. Patients bend more than me money. Like hey, I know you're already working, I gotta pay your bills. And like I paid my bills, like with just people's kindness. You know, I mean it was crazy. I don't even know how to pay these people back. I just it was just crazy. You know what I mean. And I just it just didn't. So I never felt I feel like a blessed, that. I never felt that there's not good people out there. I don't know, I think I went on a rent, you know in a different direction.
Speaker 1:I just think that, yeah, I just feel that there's a lot of beauty in humanity and sometimes horrible things let it come out to the surface. But I don't want those things to happen either you know what I mean. And there goes the toughest part acceptance yeah.
Speaker 5:It's just, it's what it is, and you know we accept everything and you can't judge it as good or bad, but we do the idea that it's only human right, you know. I mean we see a crime. To us it's horrific, but Jesus would just look at it and accept it. He doesn't?
Speaker 1:John the Baptist did it and my man ran his match.
Speaker 5:He just didn't join the army. You, know what. I mean Like he didn't become a warrior and start killing people. He probably could have. You know, I think about that too. He probably. You know, he grew up in a tough, violent kind there was man, but what they did to him.
Speaker 5:You know he didn't try and take his sword off a Roman and start killing Romans. You know when they captured him or whatever. It's just. There's a part of us that we always want to help, but we can't help everybody. Yeah, some people we could, and like what's going on in the Mideast, but there's not much we could do short of going there and trying to fight their war with them, because there are Americans that went there.
Speaker 1:But there are people like sometimes I'm saying that I'm agreeing with you and there's this part of you that's like, yeah, but you know what, some friend Jesus like he straight up went to talk to the Sultan in Egypt. He was just a poor guy from you know a city and he was like I'm gonna go there and talk to this guy. And he went and they became friends. You know what I mean. One of the Sultan was around like Sufis and stuff and I think maybe you've looked at him as a Sufi and they were cool. He was like this guy here he's allowed to go talk to anybody once you know like he's allowed, and he stayed there and he talked and I don't know like who knows what kind of influence he had just from that conversation. But if he left and the Sultan was like they're all not bad, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like sometimes I wonder, like I think I don't have, I can't make a change. But what if that's more out of like? I really don't feel like the one I am, to be honest. But the truth is I don't feel like that's my calling, because if it was my calling I would do it. If I felt called to do that I never felt that it was to be the calling. Maybe it's someone else's calling, I just really don't feel my calling is that.
Speaker 2:But at the same time, if there was in a situation, then there wouldn't be the calling, there wouldn't be someone that would take up the call and do something.
Speaker 2:And then I think about that too. But if there wasn't the situation, then that wouldn't be happening, but because of the situation that Saint Francis felt that he needed to take, that type of and he was that type of person that he would just did it. I think that, like you know, lord of the Rings, because of all this I mean obviously- Lord of the Rings because of what was happening, like this reign, this evil that's rising up.
Speaker 1:It gave rise to all these great characters, right, like Gengorov, and. But there's one guy I can't remember the name of the character. But there's this one guy I don't remember. He wears a funny hat, he's not in the movies, he's in the box, but he wasn't in the movie. Like, his character is not in the movie, but I think it's Frodo who gives him the ring and he puts it on. He's just like he didn't care. You know, and I always tell it to him, it's like that non-dualistic character like he was, just like. This means nothing to me. Yeah, it's nice, and meanwhile the whole world was fighting over that thing and for him it didn't matter. He was just some dude in the woods. You know what I mean. And I like that character because it was like I'm done with all, like there was no attachment at all to this place anymore. He was done with it. But we love his character, didn't even make the movie. You know what I mean why? Because it's not interesting, too boring.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not interesting, but it's actually would have been great to have such a reflection of what we're talking about. You know Someone that took the call to go in against evil, to be you know and to develop such a character and to make choices to save the world, and someone then didn't not because it was a bad choice. I'd have wore, but perhaps it wasn't part of their plan. You know, it wasn't part of who they were supposed to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they all manifested to be exactly what they were. You know, I mean, I think, like, I mean, obviously you can see, like that's where my mind is lately. It's in that space of like to make sure I want, to make sure I am what I am, which is funny, because you can never really get away from what you are.
Speaker 2:No, no no, you will always lead yourself to that thing, to that place. So you wouldn't have these urges of you know. But I think we started from that. I remember when at some point we were saying, well, I guess, when we're talking about the honeysuckle, but that inkling, that feeling like you're looking for change, it isn't just by chance, you know, it isn't because you just woke up, it's because, you know, around the age of actually between 59 to 61, there is a marker that you are, you're given up to opportunity and the option to change You'll have another one is 65 and another one is 67. So you keep feeling like you will need to bring more and more changes. You get on, you know, with life. But when I there's, no, you know, when I look at that, then you know, for me it also means that no matter what, no matter where we're going, there is already and you may feel, and then people, then you know, I think at one point you started, you asked her.
Speaker 2:It's like but then are we actually choosing a life? Yeah, we have chosen our lives and we just have a structure. You know, we have like a guardrail. They were traveling along and if we're going too close to the guardrail kind of bumps. The life bumps us back into the path we were supposed to go. But for as long as we feel we follow those inklings, those feelings, those questions, you know, then we tend to kind of gravitate towards what we're supposed to be and do no matter what. Oh, they beat you there. I've been beaten many times over to that, of course, and mostly because from star burning I'm like what, I'm sorry, what it's like whack, it's like, okay, I get it now, maybe, possibly. But those were the best times. Those were the best times. You laugh and you pop corn. Now Leo doesn't want to come back anymore, it doesn't understand it'll come so fast, right back.
Speaker 5:Yeah, she's talking about like when I go back up there I'm like that's it, I'm done. I'm not going back anymore.
Speaker 2:Six months.
Speaker 5:But I say that because sometimes it's not fun down here.
Speaker 2:You already have the next three to five lives already laid out, like your plan's overwritten down?
Speaker 1:I remember I think I told you this you gave a reading to Ligo, my friend, in the middle of the year when he was here wow, back. That was maybe six years ago or something, and he asked you about our friendship and you said oh yeah, you still have like another. I forgot what you said another five lifetimes together, or something like that. And he told me so happily, and all I could think of was like, no, I'm not going to come back six times in a year, man. They're not consecutive.
Speaker 2:They're not one after the other, so don't worry, it's a productive right now.
Speaker 5:He might be your husband in the next lifetime, which means you're the wife.
Speaker 1:It's not about that. It's just like if I come back because I I don't know.
Speaker 5:We think we know why, or whatever, but it's come back.
Speaker 2:You'll have a break after this life. You'll have a little break.
Speaker 1:I think I just want to. I just want to. I really like Chilling. I like no, I like being human. I like it. I think it's beautiful. I don't even think about that. What other I don't know? Do you think on other planets? They know it's life. I think I'm not other life or other life forms. I should say no. It's like to like make love and like eat, like something Chocolate.
Speaker 5:Yeah, chocolate, I think. But what about? But you don't know. But you don't know you could be. You could be a sentient being that looks humanoid, but it's not a human being, they're not a homo sapien, You're more like a lizard type of person. But in that culture and that planet, yeah, they have food and they make love and they have children, and it's a completely different experience, because instead of eating lasagna, they eat crickets, you know.
Speaker 1:But maybe you're right. But all I know is what I know. You know what I mean and I gotta say I think it's beautiful, but at the same time, within that and this is something you know, my cousin Pino we're talking about today is that, you know, the Buddha says that life is suffering, but he said that he recently read somewhere where people say that's not a great translation, it was it's more of it's like life is more of a dissatisfaction, and I feel that there's a truth. To me at least, everything is true, no matter how good life is, you know like all your needs are met, you're doing okay financially. You know you're making love, you're eating good food, like all the all the stuff is good, your family's doing good, everyone's healthy, blah, blah, blah, blah. There's still a sense of of not full Wanting more.
Speaker 1:It's not. It's not a mind wanting more, it's. It's something that's not full and it's a place that, like you know, there was a story with Mooji where he I won't go through the whole story, but he talks about the king and he does all these things and who's going to replace him as a king? So he puts out this whole thing like training them with the horses, teaching them all about how the king should be, you know, with the spa and getting massages and everyone's lining up to like they want to do it because they want to be king. But some people, when they're learning about how to be the horse, they really enjoy it and they're like some of them just stay there you know what I mean and they get into like the horses and they become really good, like you know, training horses, the race and all this stuff. And then the others they move on and they're learning about the spa and they're learning about massages and they're. So some people stay in that world and they become like open up their own masseuse places, massage places, you know all this stuff, and he keeps on going.
Speaker 1:Some then they learn about government and some of them, instead of moving on, they're like I'm good here they become politicians, you know. So all of them come and the last place is the chamber and he goes and nobody's there and he's like where is everybody? The only person that was there was this one kid and he's like who's this guy? He's like he's the guy that you know, he cleans up after you leave. And he's like, but nobody from the school, like from the thing came, no, but he gave, he passed the throne on to the boy because he said he's like this is the only one that knows that sees me when I take everything off and he's in that I go on, I budget the story, but that's that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Like that place, you know, when you're in that place where you can let, you can drop all of it, you drop all of the skins Right, and then it's just where you are, that that pureness that you are, and I feel like nothing touches it. No, no, lasagna, no, beautiful woman. No, nothing touches it. And I feel like that's that's the essence of life.
Speaker 5:But when I always talk about the Hali-Sakho, I feel like that's the smell. It's no ego.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 5:Describing the pure, your soul, in the purest form. There's no ego, there's no desire, no wants.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm not saying the ego isn't there, like it's not about trying to get rid of the ego, it's just about being truly what you are. And it's so soft and I don't know. I don't know if the word love is the correct word, because I feel like love comes with a lot of conditions to it.
Speaker 2:I, I, where you started when you ended, is two different places, you know, which is okay, I'm going to go. What I'm saying is more attached to the first part, but I think that's the way. Where you end is what you're looking for. And there is another reason that I felt that yours, you're going there For me. I felt that like I didn't feel, I felt like something was missing from my life and most of my life, until I, I allow myself to, to be the healer, to to actually, you know, welcome my guides in and finally take the life, which was probably what I was meant to do all along. And instead of running away from it, I, I chose, I chose that life. And the moment I chose that, all that feeling that I just if something was missing, there was constantly. There was constantly there. No matter what was happening, no matter what I did, no matter how happy I was, there was still something missing. And the moment I chose that, that went away and I haven't had a sense and it's been peaceful, you know, all along. And then all the things that show me and taught me, and all these different concepts, and specifically the one about where, which took me a while to what's the word that we were using before, not relinquish, but you know I'll use that Surrender. Surrender to it was that you're. You can't be concerned with the third and fourth and fifth step ahead of you. You can only be concerned with what's really in front of you and you have to be willing to take whatever decision, to take whatever steps to get to that step. So just go up one mark, that's it. That's all you have to do.
Speaker 2:And it was challenging because for all our lives we tried to anticipate, you know, looking into the future, and to anticipate and prevent us from experiencing the best stuff. And we used our past to learn, you know, from all the things that we don't want to experience anymore. So we're constantly kind of going, looking back and forth, and it's not that I did a lot of that, but it was just really this place where I have to trust that I have to take the steps that I'm being shown, without seeing what else is coming, where it's leading me, where I'm going or what's going to happen if I do that. And it was probably one of the best, my favorite things looking hindsight now to learn and to do. And even now to these days, it's pretty much how I live my life. I don't concern myself too much about what's tomorrow coming, but just to focus on what's right in front of me. And I took care of that feeling of I have to do more or I need to be more or is there something else that I have to be and I welcome. It's just, you know, things that just kind of are presented to me that way and then I just have to make a decision on whether I'm taking it or not.
Speaker 2:Taking it, that just that part, the first part, the last part, when you were talking about and I don't remember the words that you used or what you were saying, but what they were showing is that because you had a near-death experience if for people who have a near-death experience, usually they have they come back with this knowledge, other conscious of subconscious, in this feeling and this knowing that it constantly calls out to you that you want to go back to the creator, to that got-centered got-point or that sweet point, like you were saying. You know that place and because your subconscious self is in constant communication, because also when you have a near-death experience you also can, you have your teeter to all those other realities and planes of existence. And so you have this ujjula, like it's the word. Have you ever heard that word in Italian? It's like it's from Florence. It means like this, knowing like this calling, this feeling that doesn't really get satisfied, that you kind of look for it, you know.
Speaker 2:But what they're showing me now as I'm saying this, is because you have, like all these planes of existence that your soul is still tapped into and connected to some of it you're more aware than others and it's calling to you because in those places certain things are not existing as it is over here. So, as much as you love being a human being, there's also this other calling because in that state it's more home. That's your actual home, and I know that feeling. I know where my home is and when things get difficult I'm like I want to go home, whereas you know I don't want to be here anymore. You know, because it's like you know that feeling it's just it's a much nicer space and things feel so much different and easier over there. You know there's different abilities, so it's like things can happen in a much different way than that happens here.
Speaker 2:Here it's like dealing with the red tape that you probably deal with, like, if you ever, when I grew up in Italy, if you needed any type of paper from the county, it would take years, probably, and many, multiple times to go to the offices and they would be closed between 12 and 4 and only open between 10 and 11. And then when you went there, they, you know, it's like it was just a nightmare. You know, that's probably. They're still going on like that. That's how life is over here, you know, but it's not like you're doing anything wrong or you're looking for the wrong things. I think it's already there. It's just yeah, and it's not about the feeling like I want to be somewhere.
Speaker 1:No, it's more of a you know you're not going to be there. I mean, you said when you, when you accepted this thing of you being a healer, that feeling went away. I feel like now that's all I want to do is I want to talk about it. You know what I mean. Like all I want to do is regardless, if you like, regardless of everything that we talked about with Anna tonight, regardless if she does anything with it or not, it's just like look, can you, can you get to that place where you feel your essence? You know what I mean. And again, whether we call that God or I am like, I don't really care about the labels is like can you get to that self? And I feel like that.
Speaker 2:Remember when I gave you that that example, of standing by the river and handing out the water. That's why I feel like that's all I want to do. Right, you know what I mean. That is part of your purpose. Like you, you were, you know, noticing things about the way you spoke. But when I listen to the things that, when I hear you talking, you have this beautiful way of expressing I think everybody knows that about you and see yours that you don't hear it, I understand it.
Speaker 2:When I hear myself talk, even saying things to you, know, to you and Anna, today, I hear it back. It's like, oh, there was a thousand ways I could have said that way better. And then I'm like, oh, shut up, it's fine, Everything went fine, Everything is good. You know, you know, as our own self, we can definitely be very critical of ourselves.
Speaker 2:But when I hear you and when I see you this calling and this is why we're doing this, because this is more part for you Like I even know that at some point that'll probably be the touch of, because you'll be taking it you know, like you you're, you're going to do your own thing and take life, take off in whichever way. You need to take off in your own way and whether you like it or not, and whether it's going to come up later on, but that's because you have the way you communicate things. You have a wonderful way of doing it and I feel that that's going to be something you're going to do for a while and that you're going to do really well with it. You know and really find your calling in it into the way you're doing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I kind of to hear the truth. I hope so, because that's how I feel, like I'm here. It's like I feel not much I understand, like, like I'm special, like it's not like that at all. It's just that that's what I'm feeling inside.
Speaker 2:Like inside is like there's something that's saying I want to get something out and just open your mouth and let it out. You know what I mean and you do and and you've been saying it, and I know that when people feel this way and you have this and you have like this urge, let's do it now. Let's do it now. Even when we talked earlier it was like, yes, let me do it now, because it's more your purpose. I'm doing this. I know what my purpose is in doing this and I love doing it. I love talking about this kind of stuff and having the opportunity to share, but also know I can write. I know that at some point it's just I can see that I'm going to go this way, like for me, this is going to be a period of time and that's perfectly fine, and then when I feel that it's going to be, I'm going to be done with it. I can just move on to whatever and you're going to continue and doing your thing, because that's your call.
Speaker 2:You know so and you do really well. You express yourself in beautiful ways, just poetic, you know. But that's part of when you look at all your life, everything that happened, your experiences, razul, the people did, the questions that you ask, the conclusion and the translation and everything that you're saying. It's connected to this. This is your calling. You know so, and I'm happy to be here right now and doing what we're doing. And doing what?
Speaker 2:we're doing. I think it's fantastic. I think it's great. It's great when it serves a purpose for everybody, for you too. Even though you're falling asleep there, I know I'm still here. You found your voice tonight.
Speaker 1:I felt it was going to come tonight, did you? Yes, nice, I felt it because I just felt when I was talking to Anna and I was like maybe she should come and we could talk about the path and what. I was saying that to you. But when I saw that I saw Leo talking to her, so I was like, oh, I even told you right, yeah, I'm feeling like you're going to, so it's good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm happy. I just love what we're doing. I absolutely love it.
Speaker 5:I was going to say. I hope everything we said resonates with you and you know it gives you a lot to really think about.
Speaker 2:You mean you're saying that I don't want to put all this time and effort if you're not going to do something about it.
Speaker 1:I know I'm very popular with. Rosa.
Speaker 1:Now I have all my patients asking me about you guys, because Rosa is like telling everybody oh yeah, but everything. I would give you the update on that. After she came here and spoke with you guys Rosa the chef she went home. She said she went home after that night. So I guess we can do this as a recap or something. She went home People may like it, I'm busy.
Speaker 1:She said she felt really nauseous to her because she gets close, so she walked home. She felt nauseous, she gets home. She just woke up the next day stealing her coat and everything never got underneath. She told her whole story too, right, she felt like crap the next day, but then after that she felt fantastic. She said and she came in, she's like singing in the office and she's like talking to everyone and I was like I gotta get to work. You know what I mean. But she was telling everybody, oh my God, I met Bob and his friends and she talked to me and all this stuff. Then she met a guy. Like everything started clearing. She met a guy and she's all smitten and like it's fantastic. Did you hear that, hannah?
Speaker 2:You know, we did a session like this. We actually talked with her and we're now an hour and a half. She shifted. She had a major shift, but you had one too, just as big as she did. Hers was due, and so much she shed all that stuff for that time that she wasn't feeling well, which is great, oh, I'm so happy to hear yeah, it's nice, yeah, yeah, it's nice. Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1:Good yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Won't give her my love yeah yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:I'm happy for her.
Speaker 1:And it's nice because you can see, it's like you know, it's like you're bringing something beautiful to the world. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's the best feeling to see that you know people find themselves after certain things, so that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah.